When Did The City Centre Lose Its Soul?

[Mister M]

23 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

I agree that I was not in the city centre in the 80'ss and 90's and that is why I am not referring to the 80's and 90's when I post.

The city centre was choc a bloc in the 50's 60's and 70's when I was working and entertaining in the city centre. No drunks problem where I was.

If you are discussing drunks too, you need to follow my tack and blame the police and council for not keeping law and order as they used to.

We used to go out and have fun without disorder in those days and that is exactly why I say that thee city centre has gone down the plughole.

 

Also, there were definitely more people living in town from the 1920's to the 1950's than there are now until slum clearance knocked down the houses.

 

 

 

None of this is specific to Sheffield though.

I've lived in both Manchester and Leeds. Both of those city centres are dreadful for anti social behaviour, and worse!

Believe me, Sheffield is a much nicer environment.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Mister M

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Mister M said:

None of this is specific to Sheffield though.

I've lived in both Manchester and Leeds. Both of those city centres are dreadful for anti social behaviour, and worse!

Believe me, Sheffield is a much nicer environment.

Yes, I can fully believe that.

public disorder is now widespread across the country and will remain so until the people demand that this changes.

We are made to pay for the police so we should demand that they do their jobs.

 

 

From the answers I am getting, it would seem that some are saying Sheffield is a nice place as long as you ignore the drunks, druggies and various elements creating disorder.

That's not at all what I would call a nice place and I spent a lot of time working in the city centre in years gone by, when it was a very nice place.

That is exactly my argument.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Organgrinder

[harvey19]

48 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

I agree that I was not in the city centre in the 80'ss and 90's and that is why I am not referring to the 80's and 90's when I post.

The city centre was choc a bloc in the 50's 60's and 70's when I was working and entertaining in the city centre. No drunks problem where I was.

If you are discussing drunks too, you need to follow my tack and blame the police and council for not keeping law and order as they used to.

We used to go out and have fun without disorder in those days and that is exactly why I say that the city centre has gone down the plughole.

 

Also, there were definitely more people living in town from the 1920's to the 1950's than there are now until slum clearance knocked down the houses.

 

 

 

Were you Phil the Organgrinder that entertained in the Hole in the Road ?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

       The national census, ward and constituency data on population disproves your view on city centre population. You obviously were not in Sheffield in the evenings and Sundays in the 80's and 90's when at times not one commercial cinema existed,  or a supermarket was open in the centre in the evening. Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings were so bad with drunks that it became a no go area.

       Sheffield(specifically and nationally)has been dealt several body over the last 50 years but still people come here because they want to.

I don't think there was a time in the 80s and 90s when Sheffield city centre was without a cinema.  The Gaumont closed in 85 but reopened after refurbishment as the Odeon in 87.  During that time the ABC was still open, as was the Cannon/Fiesta on Pond Street.  While the ABC closed in 88ish, the Cannon/Fiesta remained open until it was taken over by the Odeon 7, which opened in 92.  The Odeon on Burgess Street was open until 94 too.  I think the Odeon 7 (or whatever it's called now) is still going.

[Kidorry]

2 hours ago, Jack Grey said:

Id rather visit a village with Ebola than go into a phone box

 

Used only by drug dealers and homeless people who need to defecate 

 

Im surprised they havent removed them all years ago

When did you last see any of these things happen?  My post  was comparing  why people used phone boxes  yesteryear and not now. I saw a telephone engineer, this morning, either repairing or dismantling a phone box. Which I think is the only one left in that area.

[Kidorry]

3 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Do you think that if there was an alternative back in those days to work they'd be so enthusiastic. Do you think if you give those people a choice between the dirty manual factory or a modern semi automated industrial surrounding or even ability to work from a comfy office or their own  living rooms, they wouldn't have took it?

 

As for telephone boxes and public toilets, let's not forget here that the computer age has been mainstream for over a quarter of a century. The early mass market mobile phones were commonplace by the mid 1990s. So if people are still insisting on using telephone boxes and never bothered to progress with society over 25 years later, that's their choice and their own problem.  You are deluded to think that any authority would keep a completely outdated and unnecessary piece of ageing infrastructure in situ just to appease a tiny minority.  In fact, if you bother to look, there still are abilities to make calls from on street kiosks. They are even free calls. The difference is they are from modern sleek touch screen terminals rather than a ye olde red phone box.

 

As for public toilets, most people have facilities inside their own house these days. There is no need for vast amounts of public communal facilities operated by a local authority - which in the past couple of decades were seen as nothing more than run down seedy crack dens that people avoided like a plague.  For those of legitimate purposes there are an abundance of facilities in any restaurant, cafe, bar, office building, theatre, gallery, cinema, hotel, council building, bus station, library, train station and both of our main department stores. There are even several specific locations which advertise that their toilet access is open to all without purchases or other restrictions. 

 

The worsening of public transport following privatisation is up for debate in my opinion, however, if you keep up with current affairs, you'd be aware the next generation of supertram operation will be back in public hands and both our local politicians and regional mayor are  pushing for the same to apply to bus services. Something which I'm sure you would consider an improvement.....right?  

 

There's not some ageist thing. It's just certain people burying in the sand. Not willing to move on from what 'they' perceive as the better days.  Certain people who, for some bizarre reason,    take pride in not moving with the times and clinging onto their backwards thinking and constant put down of anything new or different.

Why have you got to try to prove that you are correct in what you post, by, trying to make anyone who has a different view of things than you. I was referring to the things that I have seen in the past and what I see now but you only look at things as they are now, because you have not a clue about what life was then. Except probably what you have seen in the media. I agree that people and things should move with the times, if, they are able. As for you comparing the Supertram system with the tramway system  the city had before, well. The  thing I like about the Supertram system is it is clean and punctual. The old system was far more frequent and went to practically every part of the city, and, the last  trams were as comfortable as most of the city transport we have today. Plus the fares were affordable to all. 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

       The national census, ward and constituency data on population disproves your view on city centre population. You obviously were not in Sheffield in the evenings and Sundays in the 80's and 90's when at times not one commercial cinema existed,  or a supermarket was open in the centre in the evening. Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings were so bad with drunks that it became a no go area.

       Sheffield(specifically and nationally)has been dealt several body over the last 50 years but still people come here because they want to. 

    

I don't know where you get your figures from,  probably Google but I would remind you that this world was happening long before Google , or even figure keeping existed.

Your figures are only right if you take tiny slices of the knowledge available and my own memory of streets I have walked,  can do far far, better than that.

 

The entire city centre was composed mainly of domestic dwellings and a lot of them were still there in the 40'ss and 50's when I walked around them.

My own family came from Barkers Pool when it was mainly domestic dwellings and the Town Hall was built on land cleared of domestic dwellings and pubs (where people also lived).

I have had members of my own family living on Upper Hanover Street and Matilda Street.  I have also lived within  5 minutes walk of The Moor myself. 

Pond Street (on both sides)  and Harmer Lane used to be almost entirely, domestic housing apart from a woodyard on Harmer Lane.

Even on streets which had shops,  most of the shops were also peoples homes because many shops were also residential.

 

I can tell you, without fear of being proved wrong that the population of the city centre, during my lifetime, but also before,  was far greater than it is now and also far greater than it is ever likely to be. 

Apart from Fargate and The Moor, together with the odd industrial premises, almost every bit of land was covered with housing, usually back to back with a lot of people squeezed into a small area.

 

What the council are doing now, with city centre dwelling,  is just slowly returning to the way that the city centre used to be.

I would repeat then,  The city centre is no more lived in than it ever was and as for vibrant, you need to check what vibrant means.

I am also talking about the days when the city centre was policed properly,  unlike the times you are referring to.

In my view, the fancy paving is just sugar coating and I prefer the city centre that used to be alive,  including muck and all.

 

 

 

[Jack Grey]

7 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

I can tell you, without fear of being proved wrong that the population of the city centre, during my lifetime, but also before,  was far greater than it is now and also far greater than it is ever likely to be. 

Apart from Fargate and The Moor, together with the odd industrial premises, almost every bit of land was covered with housing, usually back to back with a lot of people squeezed into a small area.

I really dont think thats true....for the past 20 years ive lived in and around the city centre so ive seen the changes with my own eyes

 

If you look at the student population they were in student villages in places like MIllhouses, Ranmoor etc but all those are now gone and the city centre sky is filled with student accomodation for as far as the eye can see

 

Everywhere you look there is apartment blocks that were not there even 10 years ago.....just look at Kelham

 

Even Park Hill that was derelict for the last 20 years is now at 80% capacity

 

And there has to be a 1000% percent increase in city centre hotels too

 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Jack Grey

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Kidorry said:

Why have you got to try to prove that you are correct in what you post, by, trying to make anyone who has a different view of things than you. I was referring to the things that I have seen in the past and what I see now but you only look at things as they are now, because you have not a clue about what life was then. Except probably what you have seen in the media. I agree that people and things should move with the times, if, they are able. As for you comparing the Supertram system with the tramway system  the city had before, well. The  thing I like about the Supertram system is it is clean and punctual. The old system was far more frequent and went to practically every part of the city, and, the last  trams were as comfortable as most of the city transport we have today. Plus the fares were affordable to all. 

I will second that and, I cannot believe that anyone would try to compare the tiny ribbon that is Supertram  against the full tramway system we had in the old days

Which moved the entire cities residents about quickly, easily, and cheaply.  Everything today is cleaner (due to the lack of industry) and that is the only positive.

Although, i don't even see the lack of industry as a positive.

 

 

 

[HeHasRisen]

11 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

I don't know where you get your figures from,  probably Google but I would remind you that this world was happening long before Google , or even figure keeping existed.

 

 

 

Are you claiming that national census data, which has been collected since at least 1841, is wrong?

 

You absolute weapon 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Edited April 7, 2023 by HeHasRisen