When Did The City Centre Lose Its Soul?

[Anna B]

1 hour ago, Longcol said:

From a few people I've known who worked there, and  from former Middlewood residents - and other similar institutions - who the charity I worked for did it's best to support after their discharge to "care in the community" I would concur.

I also worked at Middlewood hospital briefly in the 1970s. It wasn't great but the staff that I knew were genuinely caring and did their best in very difficult circumstances. 

 

Hackey Lad says it was a horrible place, true, but mental illness is a horrible affliction.

Some of the wards were certainly grim, but mental illness is horrible no matter where they live. Horrible for them, and horrible for their loved ones, and sometimes horrible for the staff. Mental illness is a curse, and very scary for most people.  

 

As well as better care, I'd like to see a lot more investment going into research to try and find ways of curing these illnesses that destroy people, or at least  finding better ways to look after them. But research wise our knowledge is painfully slow and still lacking in many areas, hardly moving forward in a century. In fact as we live longer we have more illnesses like long term Dementia to cope with. Sadly, the brain sometimes wears out before the body. And even more minor disorders can have far reaching, debilitating effects. 

The human brain, which separates us from the animals and is the most important aspect of our existence, still remains one of the last great frontiers of science.  

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Anna B

[vmam]

On 04/04/2023 at 10:09, harvey19 said:

Two of the factors which have changed the city is graffiti and beggars.

 

C.C.T.V. everywhere and still the idiots with spray cans carry on making a mess of the city buildings, only THEY think it looks good, well I've got news for you, it isn't.

The beggars should not be allowed to frequent the Moot, Pinstone Street, Fargate in fact anywhere, put them to work cleaning the mess they leave. No if or buts, they know exactly what they are doing and just don't care.

[Guest busdriver1]

7 hours ago, vmam said:

C.C.T.V. everywhere and still the idiots with spray cans carry on making a mess of the city buildings, only THEY think it looks good, well I've got news for you, it isn't.

There is the problem, some of the graffiti in the centre has been described on here as "art" and as such we are expected to have our taste re-programmed and find it acceptable.

Not Me.

Once we normalise one persons daubing's on a wall we open the floodgates for  others to feel their offerings are as good or better and should be appreciated.

Edited April 25, 2023 by busdriver1

[Mister M]

On 20/04/2023 at 12:19, Anna B said:

Mental Health is a huge issue these days, and much of it can't be fixed. We do not have the knowledge, the skills or the resources to fix the brain. The idea that these people can be 're-educated' to fix them is false. All we can do in many cases is find ways to manage it, and that no longer happens. It really is a Cinderella part of the NHS.  

 

'Remploy' for instance was a way to keep these people busy and happy in a sheltered environment where they could cope, earning a small wage, but that was phased out, and nothing put in its place. What happened to these people? Where are the day centres? The safe places for them to go? They are now subjected to the same draconian measures and sanctions of the Universal Credit system which they find impossible to navigate. 

 

Mental illness is also often a 'hidden' disability that goes undiagnosed and untreated, especially in a world where the NHS is over run with waiting lists and other problems. It's complex, often very difficult and time consuming to diagnose. It requires very specialist practitioners who are in short supply.

The suicide rates have gone up and up. The idea that sick people who should be in hospital should be in a workhouse environment is sad, yet so many people seem to want to see these people 'punished.' A very Victorian attitude to say the least. 

It's good to see this issue being discussed in the context of a local thread.

I wasn't aware that responsibility for commissioning many public health services, including mental health moved from the NHS to local authorities back in 2013. 

Public Health in Local Government: Local Government's New Public Health Fucntions (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Maybe a good idea in theory. However we do know that there have been cuts in grants from central government to local government. So councils have to deliver more for less.

On 20/04/2023 at 16:55, Organgrinder said:

Whatever they are there for, you are right Anna, that there are many in there with mental health issues due to Thatchers master stroke care in the community idea to save money.

Many are there because they just cannot cope with normal life and, at one time, would have been looked after (in a fashion anyway).

Having said that, the prisons are another failing on the governments part and, strangely enough, mostly due to privatisation.

I don't believe our governments will ever deal with the unfortunates on the streets and, like America, will just tolerate them as a token of modern life.

Say what you like about Sheffield's centre, or anywhere else for that matter.  it was never like that in the 40's, 50's and 60's.

It we could do things properly before, we could do them properly again, if the will was there

. 

I agree.

One of the tragedies of 'Care in the Community' is that people who were institutionalised by the system - had the core of their independence taken away from them, were then turfed out of hospitals and obviously many couldn't cope, and didn;t have the independent living skills needed. Some were lucky and had a weekly or fortnightly visit from a CPN. However, I do remember that CMHTs were quite strict about not having their community centres / surgeries full of people who were former patients.

16 hours ago, hackey lad said:

My Grandad spent some time in Middlewood . By all accounts , a horrible place.

My colleague at work used to work as a nurse at Middlewood in the late 1980s, and she said it was a dreadful place.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Mister M

[harvey19]

3 hours ago, Mister M said:

It's good to see this issue being discussed in the context of a local thread.

I wasn't aware that responsibility for commissioning many public health services, including mental health moved from the NHS to local authorities back in 2013. 

Public Health in Local Government: Local Government's New Public Health Fucntions (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Maybe a good idea in theory. However we do know that there have been cuts in grants from central government to local government. So councils have to deliver more for less.

I agree.

One of the tragedies of 'Care in the Community' is that people who were institutionalised by the system - had the core of their independence taken away from them, were then turfed out of hospitals and obviously many couldn't cope, and didn;t have the independent living skills needed. Some were lucky and had a weekly or fortnightly visit from a CPN. However, I do remember that CMHTs were quite strict about not having their community centres / surgeries full of people who were former patients.

My colleague at work used to work as a nurse at Middlewood in the late 1980s, and she said it was a dreadful place.

Sadly such places will not be nice places because of the problems patients have.

I have stated before the marvellous work Sheffield mental health services in hospital and at home have done in my experience.

Anyone interested in mental health may be interested in books dealing with what was called shell shock in WW1, bomb happy in WW2 and ptsd nowadays. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by harvey19

[redruby]

This scheme in Manchester to help deal with begging sounds promising.  It won’t solve the problem of course but I think it is very positive step and will help  https://www.bigissue.com/news/housing/has-manchester-found-a-way-to-tackle-begging/

 

The problems with ‘street people’ in town are just getting worse.  It’s not only the begging out on the streets, it’s clear to see the problems shops are having with shoplifting.  I’ve seen shoplifters getting chased out of Poundland regularly.  Many shops have had to close some of their doorways and reconfigure their layout to try to prevent it.  There are also a lot more security guards.  Many of them are professional and do a good job but unfortunately, there are some that make shopping in the stores they are paid to protect feel intimidating and unpleasant.  The types that like having their little bit of power but are not such big, brave guys dealing with hard nut criminals.  Of course, the bottom line is that unless something drastic is done, the city centre will continue on a downward spiral.

[Jack Grey]

20 minutes ago, redruby said:

Of course, the bottom line is that unless something drastic is done, the city centre will continue on a downward spiral.

Depends what youre looking for

 

I went out in the city centre on bank holiday sunday

 

The weather was beautiful and every pub and bar was packed with everyone stood outside enjoying the sunshine 

 

Yes the high street has died but restaurants, bars, entertainment and housing seems to be thriving 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Jack Grey said:

Depends what youre looking for

 

I went out in the city centre on bank holiday sunday

 

The weather was beautiful and every pub and bar was packed with everyone stood outside enjoying the sunshine 

 

Yes the high street has died but restaurants, bars, entertainment and housing seems to be thriving 

Where has this modern trend come from,  that all everyone needs to make them happy is a bar and a a restaurant?

I would think that most people would be looking for more than that.

The nation in general appears to be obese enough to me.

Remember that the weather isn't always beautiful and modern day architects/planners,  don't even realise that canopies are a good idea in adverse weather,  especially when no cars are allowed.

There will always be a great need for housing so you did, at least, get that bit right. 

 

 

[cressida]

For some reason the canopies which helped people to shop when raining were all taken down on the main street in Altrincham,  business must  have been lost,  mums used to stop off on way to collect children from schools probably go straight to supermarkets nowadays.

1 hour ago, Jack Grey said:

Depends what youre looking for

 

I went out in the city centre on bank holiday sunday

 

The weather was beautiful and every pub and bar was packed with everyone stood outside enjoying the sunshine 

 

Yes the high street has died but restaurants, bars, entertainment and housing seems to be thriving 

Along with weight increases?

[Jack Grey]

2 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Where has this modern trend come from,  that all everyone needs to make them happy is a bar and a a restaurant?

I bet youre fun at parties

Edited June 6, 2023 by Jack Grey