When Did The City Centre Lose Its Soul?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

   Stereotyping at its worst.

   Using the circumstances of the most disadvantaged to establish a very weak point is really sad and insulting. A set of clueless assumptions based on the need to blame others.

    I have no idea why your circumstances have led you to be "...really angry,(with) all these "modernaires"..." and  "... sick of all the "very fortunates"...", but Sheffield is moving on and if you really feel strongly enough about the direction that change should take, get involved-do something. 

I conform to the stereotype in exactly the same way that you do.

A lot of the most disadvantaged would not be in this position at all were it not for people quite happy to accept massive change knowing that it won't affect them personally.

The main point you have missed though, is that Sheffield IS NOT moving on. It's moving backwards and all this modernisation involves not adding but, taking away  from Sheffield's old legacy.

My circumstances are fine and in no way, anything to do with my sense of fairness for others which I would never expect you to understand. 

People don't need fancy Italian paving and city centre parks, they need jobs, jobs with proper wages, to replace the jobs stolen from them whilst the nicely comfortable didn't even notice.

If that had not happened, there would not be so many disadvantaged  for me to write about, and for you to ignore.

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Organgrinder

[redruby]

Drugs, spiceheads, drunks, drug dealing, street beggars, anti social behaviour, shop lifting for drug habit funding…all make town horrible.

It’s all spiralled out of control and, frankly, been encouraged by those kind hearted souls who think they are ‘helping’. But sadly are most likely just helping some poor soul to their demise.

To be clear, I’m not blaming those falling on hard times.

[Guest makapaka]

On 04/04/2023 at 03:07, Mister M said:

I first came to Sheffield in 1991, and frankly Sheffield City Centre didn't look very nice. 

The Hole in the Road stank awful, and although I liked the design of the 'Egg Box', it probably wasn't fit for purpose. The gardens in front of the eggbox looked rundown with some dodgy characters lurking about. I liked the shops Spoils on the High Street, & I love Atkinsons (which is still there). T.J. Hughes was okay in the old Rackhams building. Cole Brothers was fab. C&A was just C&A. 

It's all very well for people to get dewy eyed over Castle Markets, but by the time I arrived in Sheffield they looked very shabby, and smelt bad. It's right they were pulled down.

In 1991 The Moor was deserted and remained so until it was revamped a few years ago. The new markets are very clean and welcoming. The public square where Zizzi's and Cubana are situated is very nice.The Supertram system is excellent. Winter Gardens is lovely, as is Tudor Square. Fitzallan Square does look better now than it did years ago.

There aren't as many shops in the city centre, but a lot of that is to do with people preferring to shop at Meadowhall, or shop online. Consequently the city centre has had to be repurposed as place for people to live as well as shop. I suppose the pandemic also has had an effect.

I understand many people who have lived here all their lives have an emotional connection to the city centre and want it to stay as it was when they were kids. However city centres change, and Sheffield is no different.

I have to agree with this.

 

im nostalgic for the city centre i remember as a kid in the 80s - but there are lots of improvements now.

 

the biggest thing affecting it in terms of shops is Meadowhall - but there’s  lots of other parts that are great for different reasons.

[ECCOnoob]

2 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

I conform to the stereotype in exactly the same way that you do.

A lot of the most disadvantaged would not be in this position at all were it not for people quite happy to accept massive change knowing that it won't affect them personally.

The main point you have missed though, is that Sheffield IS NOT moving on. It's moving backwards and all this modernisation involves not adding but, taking away  from Sheffield's old legacy.

My circumstances are fine and in no way, anything to do with my sense of fairness for others which I would never expect you to understand. 

People don't need fancy Italian paving and city centre parks, they need jobs, jobs with proper wages, to replace the jobs stolen from them whilst the nicely comfortable didn't even notice.

If that happened, there would not be so many disadvantaged  for me to write about, and for you to ignoree.

 

 

 

What a load of crap.  There are plenty of good paying jobs out there. There are thousands of graduates coming out of university every year who choose to stay in this city.  I know people who have come out of 25+ year employment with places who have successfully moved into a different industry, and excelled with a second career.   Its up to people to get off their backsides and work for them.

 

The ONS reports that we have 79% of our city population in employment. The average annual wage in Sheffield is above several other big cities including Nottingham, Birmingham, Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool, and Cardiff - places which are are hardly categorised lagging behind either in fact they often purported to be "better" than Sheffield by certain people on here.

 

The world has moved on with great advancements in manufacturing techniques, supply chains, globalisation, automation and robotics.  That has created entire new careers for people.  Entirely new ways of working.  Entirely new ways to progress and develop that were totally unheard of even just 15 years ago. 

 

The legacy which you think is so lacking is still here. Steel is still being made in the city. Manufacturing is still being done in this city.  Big business is still taking place in the city every day.   The difference it is now done in bright modern factories filled with advanced technology and no longer requires gangs of sweaty dirty blokes humping materials around all day and suppin' their six pints at lunchtime or smoke filled typing pools filled with women clattering away on the keyboards before they have to dash back home to dip the nets, hoover and cook tea for't husband.

 

The smart ones are the ones who retrained, advanced themselves and are now doing their equally as important and well paid roles from the comfort of behind a desk, lab, control room or even entirely remotely from home.

 

You are deluded if you think things were going to remain. You are living in some rose tinted fantasy of how things used to be.  We are competing on a global market with emerging nations able to produce the raw materials and do the repetitive simplistic assembly for pennies a day. Something we are embracing with the abundance of cheap goods on our shop shelves.

 

We in turn as the more developed nation and more developed city have had to evolve ourselves with new industries, operations and services.

 

The 70s and 80s are long gone.  They are half an average lifetime ago.  We are now in a adult generation of people born post internet. Post smartphones. They know nothing nor care about the winter discontent or the union wars or miners strikes or supposed effects of Thatcherism.   Anyone bringing up that as some excuse for their being held back 40+ years on needs to take a long hard look at themselves

Edited April 5, 2023 by ECCOnoob

[hackey lad]

5 hours ago, ads36 said:

we've moved on from moaning about the city centre - to include the entire city.

 

ok...

 

We've got great theatres, and a very healthy indie-music scene.

 

We've got advanced manufacturing*, and excellent universities.

 

(*Boeing, Mclaren, UKAEA, Forgemasters, and dozens of less well-known hi-tech companies. These are great jobs, offering real careers, accessible to our kids)

 

We've got 2 decent football teams(!) - both with proper stadiums *in* the city.

 

We've got a world-famous reputation for outdoor sports - from Skateboarding on Exchange place, to paragliding in the Peak District.

 

We've got great local beers, pubs, and places to eat.

 

etc.

 

Thanks Sheffield!

Thread is about the city centre .

[Guest]

3 hours ago, redruby said:

Drugs, spiceheads, drunks, drug dealing, street beggars, anti social behaviour, shop lifting for drug habit funding…all make town horrible.

It’s all spiralled out of control and, frankly, been encouraged by those kind hearted souls who think they are ‘helping’. But sadly are most likely just helping some poor soul to their demise.

To be clear, I’m not blaming those falling on hard times.

All this is another indication of how the city centre has gone downhill.

Knocking down old buildings  and laying fancy paving will not lead to a welcoming town centre until something is done about these problems.

Before you can impress visitors, something needs to be done about all these problems.

The more politicians talk about law & order, the worse things become.  The reason being, that it's just talk and no action.

 

I wonder if we will ever start moving on at all because everyone clearly accepts that the city centre really has, lost it's soul.

 

 

 

[Mister M]

4 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

All this is another indication of how the city centre has gone downhill.

Knocking down old buildings  and laying fancy paving will not lead to a welcoming town centre until something is done about these problems.

Before you can impress visitors, something needs to be done about all these problems.

The more politicians talk about law & order, the worse things become.  The reason being, that it's just talk and no action.

 

I wonder if we will ever start moving on at all because everyone clearly accepts that the city centre really has, lost it's soul.

 

 

 

I don't think the city centre has 'lost its soul'. As I said above, when I came to Sheffield over 30 years ago, the city centre, in spite of some great shops, looked really run down. 

If we accept as you say that the city has lost its soul, what can be done to improve the situation?

[hackey lad]

2 minutes ago, Mister M said:

I don't think the city centre has 'lost its soul'. As I said above, when I came to Sheffield over 30 years ago, the city centre, in spite of some great shops, looked really run down. 

If we accept as you say that the city has lost its soul, what can be done to improve the situation?

Is it better now ?

[fools]

Listing things every city has got, and sticking the words great or excellent in front of them is hardly a compelling argument, unless you're doing a primary school project on advertising.

 

Great food and skateboarding apparently.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Mister M said:

I don't think the city centre has 'lost its soul'. As I said above, when I came to Sheffield over 30 years ago, the city centre, in spite of some great shops, looked really run down. 

If we accept as you say that the city has lost its soul, what can be done to improve the situation?

I stated that  it's clear the city centre has lost it's soul because that's the title of the thread and no one seems to have disputed that this is fact except yourself.   You are of course, entitled to this opinion.

I have lived here well over 80 years and remember the city as a big, busy noisy city employing many many thousands of skilled men making quality products that were known all over the world.

The streets were always thronged with people and, no matter what you wanted, someone supplied it close by.  I have stopped going to town (nothing to go for now) but photos and videos show it as almost deserted.

What to do is quite a question and I don't have all the answers but, firstly, the council and the police need to talk to the people of the city and spell out what they are going to do  regarding all the points that redruby raised.

They also need to explain  just what they are aiming for with the city centre. A couple of small city centre parks and a broken down stone wall are not going to be major attractions.

We need some initiatives to create real jobs in the city, not selling burgers, but something that earns real wages for our citizens.

There has been no investment to replace all the skilled and decently paid jobs we lost and the government should be shamed into doing it's share with that, although I think that's a non-starter.

We are certainly never going to be a shopping city again and the shops and markets were definitely the biggest draw in the old days.

I agree we have good theatres but , by creating an anti-car feel in the city, this must deprive the theatres of a certain amount of custom.

When we look at the massive amounts of money which have been wasted by our council with it's build it up - knock it down policies we should have already had a good start but are back at the beginning..

I consider that Sheffield was a very proud place and that sense of pride has been thrown away with litter and debris all over except for the chosen places within  half a mile of the town hall.

I see the cities traffic plan as utterly stupid and  a major cause of congestion causing traffic to  take all kinds of weird diversions to get from A to B. I would sack the entire lot of traffic planners.

I could go on all day in this vein but, as I think that too much damage has already been inflicted on the city, in my view, it would take years and billions of pounds of investment to make a real change.

In the meantime, I shall continue to shop at shops and traditional markets elsewhere and leave the council to carry on with their vandalism whilst the forces of law & order look away.