Dominic Raab Been Made A Scapegoat By The Snowflakes

[RollingJ]

7 minutes ago, Mister M said:

I would've thought so. Any grievance should be made by the person concerned.

However I do know that in the case  of the Civil Service, it is the civil servants line manager who raises the concerns with the minister. I do know that the Permanent Secretary Simon McDonald raised issues with Raab on his behaviour.

Thanks for semi-agreeing with me in line one above.

That should be the normal procedure, I would have thought - should it get to that point - it is normal to raise concerns first with ones immediate superior, certainly was when I was working. How do you know that? Ah - the Guardian - again.

Edited April 24, 2023 by RollingJ

[harvey19]

6 minutes ago, Mister M said:

I would've thought so. Any grievance should be made by the person concerned.

However I do know that in the case  of the Civil Service, it is the civil servants line manager who raises the concerns with the minister. I do know that the Permanent Secretary Simon McDonald raised issues with Raab on his behaviour.

Dominic Raab dismissed warnings about his behaviour, says ex-Foreign Office colleague – as it happened | Politics | The Guardian

But Adam Tolley conducted his report under guidance by the High Court of their interpretation of the Ministerial Code. 

So there is an objective criteria by which Raab's behaviour was judged.

Moreover, you're not saying because every detail isn't published then it's speculative are you?

I was remarking on views on this forum.

[Mister M]

1 minute ago, RollingJ said:

Thanks for semi-agreeing with me in line one above.

That should be the normal procedure, I would have thought - should it get to that point - it is normal to raise concerns first with ones immediate superior, certainly was when I was working. How do you know that?

It's standard procedure in the civil service that the Minister does not have line management duties with his civil service staff. That's down to the Permanent Secretary. In this case,  Simon McDonald was the Permanent Secretary at the Foreign Office, and he told Raab of the impact of his behaviour of the civil servants, however Raab dismissed what McDonald said.

[harvey19]

6 minutes ago, Mister M said:

It's standard procedure in the civil service that the Minister does not have line management duties with his civil service staff. That's down to the Permanent Secretary. In this case,  Simon McDonald was the Permanent Secretary at the Foreign Office, and he told Raab of the impact of his behaviour of the civil servants, however Raab dismissed what McDonald said.

Dismissed or didn't agree with ?

[RollingJ]

1 minute ago, Mister M said:

It's standard procedure in the civil service that the Minister does not have line management duties with his civil service staff. That's down to the Permanent Secretary. In this case,  Simon McDonald was the Permanent Secretary at the Foreign Office, and he told Raab of the impact of his behaviour of the civil servants, however Raab dismissed what McDonald said.

Works directors at my employer did not have line-management duties either - it was down to departmental directors. I 'suffered', just the once, the behaviour of a Works Director and told him to his face what I thought. He was a 'turn-coat' - ex union boss, and lasted less than two months, because I suspect, he was incompetent/incapable.

[Chekhov]

16 hours ago, hackey lad said:

Mister M did you on that one . I think thats what the youth call , Owned 😂

In your view.

[Mister M]

58 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Dismissed or didn't agree with ?

It was reported that MacDonald said 'dismissed' in the link. 

Anyway - he said he would resign if he was found guilty of bullying civil servants. He said he welcomed the investigation by Adam Tolley. Adam Tolley did his investigation, and found that Raab had indeed bullied civil servants.

So there you have it.

58 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

Works directors at my employer did not have line-management duties either - it was down to departmental directors. I 'suffered', just the once, the behaviour of a Works Director and told him to his face what I thought. He was a 'turn-coat' - ex union boss, and lasted less than two months, because I suspect, he was incompetent/incapable.

I'm afraid there's a lot of incompetent people in positions they shouldn't be in.

[fools]

11 minutes ago, Mister M said:

I'm afraid there's a lot of incompetent people in positions they shouldn't be in.

That is most definitely true, you don't have to look far to find ineptitude and abuse of power

Edited April 24, 2023 by fools

[RollingJ]

3 minutes ago, Mister M said:

I'm afraid there's a lot of incompetent people in positions they shouldn't be in.

I agree with what you say - in al walks of life. But the point is - I stood up for myself. At the time, I was about 23-24, he was very much older and obviously 'higher up', but that was irrelevant - no-one behaved/behaves towards me in the manner he did, and I told him so. I could have gone the grievance procedure route - but I realised early on in my working life that it is easier to do things directly, if you want a rapid result.

[harvey19]

32 minutes ago, Mister M said:

It was reported that MacDonald said 'dismissed' in the link. 

Anyway - he said he would resign if he was found guilty of bullying civil servants. He said he welcomed the investigation by Adam Tolley. Adam Tolley did his investigation, and found that Raab had indeed bullied civil servants.

So there you have it.

 

I don't disagree with you but wonder what provoked him to act as he did and whether it was his management style which some staff did not welcome..

Without seeing the report we do not know what was classed as bullying or whether it was a reaction to something.