Bank Of England Says People Need To Accept They Are Poorer

[Annie Bynnol]

On 01/05/2023 at 06:52, trastrick said:

Perhaps I can help you here, with your one paragraph summing up of the attitude of Brits during, and just after the war 

A little research and a cite, for your history revision?

It was a time of national survival, and almost everybody had family members in the military fighting. and dying, in the war.

The eventual outcome looked very bleak for a time, but yet, the vast majority public were united in a common commitment to the war effort. led by a great wartime leader, in whom they placed a great deal of confidence.

Despite the shortages (your "fun things"), it was a willing sacrifice for our boys in the front lines, Women were the mainstay of the home front,  They populated the factories, and kept the spirits up, and managed to feed their families.

Rationing was a minimal sacrifice, to keep the war effort strong while our soldiers were dying, and nobody was starving.

Life did go on. marriages, babies, home schooling, and a general feeling of unity, optimism and cheerfulness pervaded the working class.

Neighborhood crime was seen as treachery, and was non-existent in Heeley, until well after the war was over, and certainly not experiencing any "highest crime rates ever"

Where did you get this propaganda from? It seems like it came from the "Daily Worker" a communist rag that had little circulation in those days!

     Unlike you I cannot rely on the memories of a five year old, instead it is the experiences of people who travelled and stayed extensively throughout the UK(because of their work) including the poorest port cities in the UK. It is the experience of young families split up across the country-in one case forcibly removed. The experiences of men who dealt with fraud by industrial and other companies who had government contracts. Of the perpetual queues and unfairness of rationing. Thankfully Sheffield was a hard target to find for the Germans and suffered considerably less than the coastal port cities. 

    Of crime I have to rely on government figures which saw crime rate in England and Wales rise by well over 50% from  pre -war figures. Factors included a surge of gangland activity and organised crime, black market activities, pilfering, robbery, murder, rape, burglary, looting and theft, the lack of investigating resources and the opportunities provided by the blackout etc. The joyous scenes on VE/VJ days had far more to do relief.

    As you cannot see that 'La Isla Bonita' is pure Hollywood, so also are the thousands of articles, films, shorts and newsreels produced/financed/contracted/controlled/censored by the Ministry of Information. You also seem confused by what the Daily Worker promoted. Its communist masters initially required pro-war, anti-fascist stance, followed by an anti 'Imperialist War'  interregnum between the Molotov/Ribbentrop deal and the German invasion and then a pro-war, pro-Soviet stance until the end.

     Things in Britain were not good and the Government rightly and very successfully needed to reassure the public and create an atmosphere in which the war effort was supported in a 'total war', where everybody was needed to do their bit*(qv Germany where they did not).  Something that had to be done, needed to be done and was done.  What some cannot see is that the reality was a bit different to that portrayed in the newsreel, most people did not want to be reminded of the horrors so that during and after the war those subjects were avoided by those who could. Those who could not were often ignored and forgotten-it wasn't talked about.

*You and Chekhov might find some fruitful comparison with similar Government activities during the pandemic.

[harvey19]

4 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

     Unlike you I cannot rely on the memories of a five year old, instead it is the experiences of people who travelled and stayed extensively throughout the UK(because of their work) including the poorest port cities in the UK. It is the experience of young families split up across the country-in one case forcibly removed. The experiences of men who dealt with fraud by industrial and other companies who had government contracts. Of the perpetual queues and unfairness of rationing. Thankfully Sheffield was a hard target to find for the Germans and suffered considerably less than the coastal port cities. 

    Of crime I have to rely on government figures which saw crime rate in England and Wales rise by well over 50% from  pre -war figures. Factors included a surge of gangland activity and organised crime, black market activities, pilfering, robbery, murder, rape, burglary, looting and theft, the lack of investigating resources and the opportunities provided by the blackout etc. The joyous scenes on VE/VJ days had far more to do relief.

    As you cannot see that 'La Isla Bonita' is pure Hollywood, so also are the thousands of articles, films, shorts and newsreels produced/financed/contracted/controlled/censored by the Ministry of Information. You also seem confused by what the Daily Worker promoted. Its communist masters initially required pro-war, anti-fascist stance, followed by an anti 'Imperialist War'  interregnum between the Molotov/Ribbentrop deal and the German invasion and then a pro-war, pro-Soviet stance until the end.

     Things in Britain were not good and the Government rightly and very successfully needed to reassure the public and create an atmosphere in which the war effort was supported in a 'total war', where everybody was needed to do their bit*(qv Germany where they did not).  Something that had to be done, needed to be done and was done.  What some cannot see is that the reality was a bit different to that portrayed in the newsreel, most people did not want to be reminded of the horrors so that during and after the war those subjects were avoided by those who could. Those who could not were often ignored and forgotten-it wasn't talked about.

*You and Chekhov might find some fruitful comparison with similar Government activities during the pandemic.

There is always good and bad people but I am sure many people helped each other get through these terrible times.

 

[trastrick]

Just now, Annie Bynnol said:

     Unlike you I cannot rely on the memories of a five year old, instead it is the experiences of people who travelled and stayed extensively throughout the UK(because of their work) including the poorest port cities in the UK. It is the experience of young families split up across the country-in one case forcibly removed. The experiences of men who dealt with fraud by industrial and other companies who had government contracts. Of the perpetual queues and unfairness of rationing. Thankfully Sheffield was a hard target to find for the Germans and suffered considerably less than the coastal port cities. 

    Of crime I have to rely on government figures which saw crime rate in England and Wales rise by well over 50% from  pre -war figures. Factors included a surge of gangland activity and organised crime, black market activities, pilfering, robbery, murder, rape, burglary, looting and theft, the lack of investigating resources and the opportunities provided by the blackout etc. The joyous scenes on VE/VJ days had far more to do relief.

    As you cannot see that 'La Isla Bonita' is pure Hollywood, so also are the thousands of articles, films, shorts and newsreels produced/financed/contracted/controlled/censored by the Ministry of Information. You also seem confused by what the Daily Worker promoted. Its communist masters initially required pro-war, anti-fascist stance, followed by an anti 'Imperialist War'  interregnum between the Molotov/Ribbentrop deal and the German invasion and then a pro-war, pro-Soviet stance until the end.

     Things in Britain were not good and the Government rightly and very successfully needed to reassure the public and create an atmosphere in which the war effort was supported in a 'total war', where everybody was needed to do their bit*(qv Germany where they did not).  Something that had to be done, needed to be done and was done.  What some cannot see is that the reality was a bit different to that portrayed in the newsreel, most people did not want to be reminded of the horrors so that during and after the war those subjects were avoided by those who could. Those who could not were often ignored and forgotten-it wasn't talked about.

*You and Chekhov might find some fruitful comparison with similar Government activities during the pandemic.

Another bit of historical revisionism, conveniently summarized in 4 paragraphs! 

 

My own view of the actual conditions in war time were informed by the experience of growing up in Heeley during and after the war.

 

And the experiences of our extended families, in such diverse locations in Norfolk, London, and High Wycombe, where I was fortunate to spend some time with relatives, all who had their stories to tell.

 

This was put into perspective by some great literary works, as I pursued my own education.

 

As to your advice, above, I would in turn direct you to the meticulously researched book :

 

"Austerity Britain - 1945 -1951"

 

Review:

 

"For the first time, the Sunday Times bestseller Austerity Britain is available in one complete paperback volume. Coursing through Austerity Britain is an astonishing variety of voices - vivid, unselfconscious, and unaware of what the future holds. A Chingford housewife endures the tribulations of rationing; a retired schoolteacher observes during a royal visit how well-fed the Queen looks; a pernickety civil servant in Bristol is oblivious to anyone's troubles but his own. An array of working-class witnesses describe how life in post-war Britain is, with little regard for liberal niceties or the feelings of their 'betters'. Many of these voices will stay with the reader in future volumes, jostling alongside well-known figures like John Arlott (here making his first radio broadcast, still in police uniform), Glenda Jackson (taking the 11+) and Doris Lessing, newly arrived from Africa, struck by the levelling poverty of postwar Britain.

 

"David Kynaston weaves a sophisticated narrative of how the victorious 1945 Labour government shaped the political, economic and social landscape for the next three decades.Deeply researched, often amusing and always intensely entertaining and readable, the first volume of David Kynaston's ambitious history offers an entirely fresh perspective on Britain during those six momentous years"

 

In fact I would require any serious commentator, to read it, before I would enter into any serious debate on how the U.K. got, for better or worse, to where it is today!

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by trastrick

[trastrick]

Let's see!

 

Loads of spirited opinions engendered by one statement from THIS guy:

 

 

He makes a couple hundred thousand quid a year!

 

Here's his boss:

 

 

 

Governor of the Bank of England.

 

Making half a million quid a year, and they are telling the great unwashed their version of "know your place", as in:

 

"Brits need to accept they are now poorer"

 

Marie Antoinette was  guillotined for allegedly similar expressed sentiments!

 

Off with their heads!   

 

 

 

 

[Annie Bynnol]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

Another bit of historical revisionism, conveniently summarized in 4 paragraphs! 

My own view of the actual conditions in war time were informed by the experience of growing up in Heeley during and after the war.

And the experiences of our extended families, in such diverse locations in Norfolk, London, and High Wycombe, where I was fortunate to spend some time with relatives, all who had their stories to tell.

This was put into perspective by some great literary works, as I pursued my own education.

As to your advice, above, I would in turn direct you to the meticulously researched book :

"Austerity Britain - 1945 -1951"

Review:

"For the first time, the Sunday Times bestseller Austerity Britain is available in one complete paperback volume. Coursing through Austerity Britain is an astonishing variety of voices - vivid, unselfconscious, and unaware of what the future holds. A Chingford housewife endures the tribulations of rationing; a retired schoolteacher observes during a royal visit how well-fed the Queen looks; a pernickety civil servant in Bristol is oblivious to anyone's troubles but his own. An array of working-class witnesses describe how life in post-war Britain is, with little regard for liberal niceties or the feelings of their 'betters'. Many of these voices will stay with the reader in future volumes, jostling alongside well-known figures like John Arlott (here making his first radio broadcast, still in police uniform), Glenda Jackson (taking the 11+) and Doris Lessing, newly arrived from Africa, struck by the levelling poverty of postwar Britain.

"David Kynaston weaves a sophisticated narrative of how the victorious 1945 Labour government shaped the political, economic and social landscape for the next three decades.Deeply researched, often amusing and always intensely entertaining and readable, the first volume of David Kynaston's ambitious history offers an entirely fresh perspective on Britain during those six momentous years"

In fact I would require any serious commentator, to read it, before I would enter into any serious debate on how the U.K. got, for better or worse, to where it is today!

     How odd that you suggest a book about about a period after WWII had ended. The 'wartime spirit' had long past by 1951 what was prevalent was deep dissatisfaction and disappointment.

[trastrick]

2 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

     How odd that you suggest a book about about a period after WWII had ended. The 'wartime spirit' had long past by 1951 what was prevalent was deep dissatisfaction and disappointment.

It explains, with detailed contemporary references to daily life, how and why, the 'wartime spirit had long past (sic)'

 

It also covers the post war period during which Churchill was dumped by the war weary electorate, in favour of Labour's Clement Attlee, who was himself dumped, by a returning Churchill for a second term in 1951, due to the " prevalent (and) deep dissatisfaction and disappointment" you mention.

 

 

Highly recommended!

Edited May 3, 2023 by trastrick

[Chekhov]

15 hours ago, Mister M said:

He was referencing the philosophy which holds that it's not longer important how rich those at the top were; what mattered was giving the people at the bottom a leg up so they too could get on in life.

In the last 20 years research from as diverse organisations such as universities, campaigning organisations right through to institutions such as the IMF and the OECD about how income inequality itself is a barrier to economic growth, stability, social mobility, educational attainment, health outcomes etc. 

Income inequality may or not be "a barrier to economic growth, stability, social mobility, educational attainment, health outcomes etc", but history teaches us that trying to get rid of it just makes everyone poorer.

Basically most people will work harder for more reward, and won't bother if there is none.

The old joke about the USSR, never has a truer world been said in jest :

 

When did you want your new Lada car delivering ?  How about Monday morning the 5th May in 2028 ?

Could you make that the afternoon as I have a fridge coming in the morning ?

 

14 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Millionaires don't inspire me,  I'm happy to be as I am.

Millionaires don't inspire me either, I motivate myself wanting to spend money on travelling. Many motivate themselves wanting a larger house, or a bigger car.

But you Nett Zero lot want to take all that away from us.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Chekhov

[Chekhov]

On 30/04/2023 at 21:14, Palomar said:

It's sometimes stated on here that you are Justin Smith, someone that has had a pervious identity on the forum. Having looked at your first posts c2006 I see that once you were a decent and reasonable person who I could often agree with.

I now realise is that you have (inadvertently) documented a 17 year slide into right wing idiocy, where I can no longer agree with anything you say, as you have become selfish, angry and bitter. You (and several others) need to take a break from this toxic platform for the sake of yourself and those you love.

I thought I'd answered this post but now cannot find my reply. Is my brain going, or are we descending back into the bad old days of posts being deleted for no good reason ?

 

It is not me who has changed, it is society.

It is becoming more and more regulated, more and more restrictions on our lives, more and more Woke cobblers.

I seem to remember Charlton Heston (who was a Democrat and a civil rights campaigner in the 60s) said something similar when asked why he'd become a Republican, he relied "It's not me that's changed, it's the Democrat party".

I know exactly what he means now.

 

"more and more restrictions on our lives" - As I have mentioned I am upset and angry about the fact I was not allowed to video my lad winning his first ever Fly race, but what happened during Covid was "more and more restrictions on our lives" in the stratosphere.

Woke cobblers writ large, a pub with a Golli collection being forced to close because somebody complained about it and it was taken up by the woke media. Removing historical statues and renaming organisations and buildings. Being asked to apologies for stuff which happened hundreds of years ago and was "normal" for the time. And don't even get me onto the obscene (in a free country) "cancel culture". Now they're even starting to force kids to eat meat free meals at school...... 

 

No, sadly, I don't like society as much as I used to, and I cannot see it getting better any time soon, in fact I think it will keep accelerating into a drab anodyne heavily restricted world. And it'll be even worse when they start restricting our flying, and driving, and even our heating....

Edited May 4, 2023 by Chekhov

[Mister M]

20 hours ago, Chekhov said:

Income inequality may or not be "a barrier to economic growth, stability, social mobility, educational attainment, health outcomes etc", but history teaches us that trying to get rid of it just makes everyone poorer.

Basically most people will work harder for more reward, and won't bother if there is none.

The old joke about the USSR, never has a truer world been said in jest :

 

When did you want your new Lada car delivering ?  How about Monday morning the 5th May in 2028 ?

Could you make that the afternoon as I have a fridge coming in the morning ?

But what you're doing there is setting up 2 extremes one being the  'winner takes all' society, the other being the old USSR, while ignoring the fact that other countries, in today's world,  with lower levels of income inequality are more prosperous on many metrics including economic growth. Which is the point I was making initially.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Mister M

[Mister M]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

I thought I'd answered this post but now cannot find my reply. Is my brain going, or are we descending back into the bad old days of posts being deleted for no good reason ?

 

It is not me who has changed, it is society.

It is becoming more and more regulated, more and more restrictions on our lives, more and more Woke cobblers.

I seem to remember Charlton Heston (who was a Democrat and a civil rights campaigner in the 60s) said something similar when asked why he'd become a Republican, he relied "It's not me that's changed, it's the Democrat party".

I know exactly what he means now.

 

"more and more restrictions on our lives" - As I have mentioned I am upset and angry about the fact I was not allowed to video my lad winning his first ever Fly race, but what happened during Covid was "more and more restrictions on our lives" in the stratosphere.

Woke cobblers writ large, a pub with a Golli collection being forced to close because somebody complained about it and it was taken up by the woke media. Removing historical statues and renaming organisations and buildings. Being asked to apologies for stuff which happened hundreds of years ago and was "normal" for the time. Now they're even starting to force kids to eat meat free meals at school...... 

 

No, sadly, I don't like society as much as I used to, and I cannot see it getting better any time soon, in fact I think it will keep accelerating into a drab anodyne heavily restricted world. And it'll be even worse when they start restricting our flying, and driving, and even our heating....

Charlton Heston probably did change his political allegiances, like some do, when they become wealthier. But rather than be honest about his motivations, he sought to blame society for his changing views rather than his own financial interests.

Gun ownership in the USA being a classic example of why having much heavily restricted society doesn't lead into a drab anodyne world. I mean I'm so glad that I live in a country where I don't have to fear being shot and killed everytime I walk out the door, simply because some gun toting Republican doesn't have the imagination to think of anything other than shooting and maiming to enliven his boring life.