The Heritage Party

[Longcol]

4 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

A hell of a lot

https://www.everydoctor.org.uk/map-of-nhs-privatisation

But when you zoom in on Sheffield it includes St Johns Ambulance Service for example - which  exists throughout the country. St John's has been in existence way before the NHS so can hardly be called "privatisation" .

 

Don't get me wrong - I don't want profits to be made from folks poor health - just that we should get our facts straight.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

What a load of complete rubbish.

You have the view of the present Labour party that Starmer & Co want you to hold. ...

No, love.  I have the view of someone who doesn't think that it's still 1974 and a true Labour voice is someone standing outside the Castle Market shouting 'Socialist Worker!' while being laughed at by the locals.  I would actually like Labour to win the next election, and understand that doing so means appealing to more than a crop of students and deluded wannabe activists.

 

If you think that conjuring up notions of an aspirational Socialist utopia, and trying to equate today's admittedly imperfect Labour party with the current crop of sociopath Tories who've been systematically ****ing the country for the last dozen+ years is a winning strategy,  than not all your dogs are barking.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Hecate said:

No, love.  I have the view of someone who doesn't think that it's still 1974 and a true Labour voice is someone standing outside the Castle Market shouting 'Socialist Worker!' while being laughed at by the locals.  I would actually like Labour to win the next election, and understand that doing so means appealing to more than a crop of students and deluded wannabe activists.

 

If you think that conjuring up notions of an aspirational Socialist utopia, and trying to equate today's admittedly imperfect Labour party with the current crop of sociopath Tories who've been systematically ****ing the country for the last dozen+ years is a winning strategy,  than not all your dogs are barking.

What's 1974 got to do with it because I never said anything about 1974 and, in my case, my experiences of Labour go back much further than that anyway.

Would you sooner talk in cliches than actually address the points I have raised?

You have said nothing more than that you still intend to vote Labour and that's fine,  You are as much entitled to your views as me or anyone else.
 I agree with your views on the Tories and agree that Labour would try and govern more fairly but if, as it seems,   you are determined to ignore Labour's march to the right then say bye Bye to the NHS.

I'm not trying to stop anyone voting Labour, but to warn them what's going on in the background and try to get people to enquire which way the Labour party is going.

 

As Labour move to the right, that may not worry you but surely you have views on privatisation etc, which you have never mentioned. Don't just give us that "times have changed"  rubbish which everyone knows.

Do you want the NHS privatised?  Are you not worried that Starmer has done a complete turn around on privatisation after he was against it when serving under Corbyn?

Why should leading figures in the Labour party be taking money from private Health companies and private Health Insurance companies and when asked,  they don't want to talk about it?

Labour have always said, that they are completely against privatisation of the NHS.  If they have changed their views, should they not speak openly of that and explain why?

 

If you wish to debate the points I made then do so but don't brush it off by trying to infer I live in the dark ages. Can we have a viewpoint other than Labour are better than the Tories. We know that.

Failing that, you could just ignore my posts if you have nothing to say other than I'm voting Labour. 

 

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Longcol said:

But when you zoom in on Sheffield it includes St Johns Ambulance Service for example - which  exists throughout the country. St John's has been in existence way before the NHS so can hardly be called "privatisation" .

 

Don't get me wrong - I don't want profits to be made from folks poor health - just that we should get our facts straight.

Yes, it does, include St John's and I noticed that but the reason is that they have included every single health provider, not set up and owned / run by the government

rather than go through them and have to start picking out charities.  Some providers do good work but the question is,  Do we want to see the NHS completely privatised?

I discovered that I have been treated by 2 private clinics in Sheffield, One was good, one was only so so.  Is my doctor getting a cut by referring me to them rather than the NHS.

This situation opens lots of questions about who is paying who and why.  Any money which goes to a 3rd party and their shareholders  is money lost to the NHS.

 

 

[Al Bundy]

Since 1900 – when Labour was formed – the party has only won eight out of 32 general elections.  

 

In the 121 years since the turn of the last century, only three Labour leaders have won general elections. 

 

During the same period, 10 Conservative leaders have won general elections. 

 

The Tory party has been the dominant party in power for over a century.

 

 

 

 

You would think it would be the other way around seeing as the Labour party offer this utopian society.

 

It's as if folk can see through their false promises.

 

🙄

Edited April 30, 2023 by Al Bundy

[Guest]

I should make it perfectly clear that I'm not saying don't vote Labour and I'm not saying that Labour  would do everything the same as the Conservatives do.

I am simply saying that Tory and Labour policies are far more of a sameness than ever before whereas there used to be a massive gap between them.

 

I have mentioned that I have been treated at 2 private clinics so can I use one as an example of why I think it matters..

I had a cancerous growth removed at one clinic and the procedure went as expected. I have no idea how much this cost the NHS who would be the ones who paid the bill.

Had the NHS done that procedure, it would have been done at cost price because the NHS does not have to return a profit on each thing they do.

As a private health company did it instead, they would have had the same costs for the procedure but must have charged the NHS far more than it cost to cover their profits and the money their shareholders get.

I don't see why we should line the pockets of the super rich when we have an NHS, who have not been properly funded for the past 13 years, who would have done it cheaper.

The state are shovelling money towards the rich businessmen and shareholders and increasing their own costs even more whilst they do it. whilst the NHS is already struggling.

How can privatisation and filling pockets with money be an answer to our health care?

 

If others are satisfied with this arrangement then that's up to them but, I do think we should be asking lots more questions as politics mingles with business and dealings are done, of which we know nothing.

My point then, is ask questions of the politicians and let them see that we, the public, are not daft and are aware of how many shady business deals take place nowadays.

When our politicians accept money from Private Health care companies and Health Insurance companies, is this money which has come from the NHS,   OUR NHS,  into their coffers

Politics is becoming a very dirty and very secretive business and we, if we are sensible,  would like to know why.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Organgrinder

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

... Would you sooner talk in cliches than actually address the points I have raised ...

While it would no doubt be just as amusing, addressing your broad and ridiculous point that 'Labour is marching to the right' to Tory equivalence, and every delusional tangent that you spin off from it, would be as tiresomely futile as continuing to argue against Chekhov's equally rigid views on covid. 

 

You have two alternatives: you support and vote Labour in its current iteration, or you contribute to the likelihood of more years of Tory rule.  Though I suspect that you and your chums would actually prefer to continue sitting on the sidelines bitching, whining and promising the unobtainable instead of being pragmatic and attempting, like Starmer, to do what it takes to actually get elected in the real world.

[harvey19]

Seems the alternative is to vote for the Lib Dems or Greens.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Al Bundy said:

... It's as if folk can see through their false promises.

 

🙄

I read a report this morning on a survey of Labour voters following the 2019 election, asking why they failed to support Labour that time around.  While top of the list was a distrust of Corbyn and the opinion that he would simply not make a good leader (plus a distaste for some of his more murky associations), right up there was a belief that the party could not deliver on the promises that they'd made in the run up to the election; many believed that they'd promised the world but failed to provide evidence of the associated funding. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Hecate said:

While it would no doubt be just as amusing, addressing your broad and ridiculous point that 'Labour is marching to the right' to Tory equivalence, and every delusional tangent that you spin off from it, would be as tiresomely futile as continuing to argue against Chekhov's equally rigid views on covid. 

 

You have two alternatives: you support and vote Labour in its current iteration, or you contribute to the likelihood of more years of Tory rule.  Though I suspect that you and your chums would actually prefer to continue sitting on the sidelines bitching, whining and promising the unobtainable instead of being pragmatic and attempting, like Starmer, to do what it takes to actually get elected in the real world.

As I  expected, no answer at all.