Customer Toilet Unavailable (And The 'Social Conscience' Co Op May Be The Worst)

[HeHasRisen]

5 minutes ago, Axe said:

What I have noticed is in Lidl the customer toilets are not prominent and are almost hidden unlike the big supermarkets.  I think you hit the nail on the head by saying they want to appear to be customer friendly.

I agree. The fact remains, and something poor oul Checkhov will have to get his pretty head around, that legally no customer toilets have to be provided in these smaller supermarkets without a cafe. Or any supermarket without a cafe. Or any shop without a cafe for that matter (bookies seemingly an exception)

Edited May 4, 2023 by HeHasRisen

[hauxwell]

5 minutes ago, Axe said:

What I have noticed is in Lidl the customer toilets are not prominent and are almost hidden unlike the big supermarkets.  I think you hit the nail on the head by saying they want to appear to be customer friendly.

Yes I think it’s to help their application to be approved by the council. 

[spilldig]

There is a bit of an anomaly with the cafe at Millhouses Park. Prior to covid the toilets inside the cafe were open to all. Post covid and the toilets are still closed to customers.  Now this is where the anomaly comes in because as far as I see it the cafe says we don't need to provide toilets for our customers because the park has public toilets.  The parks department seem to be ok with that but I  thought the law said that a cafe must have it's own toilets?

[ECCOnoob]

24 minutes ago, spilldig said:

There is a bit of an anomaly with the cafe at Millhouses Park. Prior to covid the toilets inside the cafe were open to all. Post covid and the toilets are still closed to customers.  Now this is where the anomaly comes in because as far as I see it the cafe says we don't need to provide toilets for our customers because the park has public toilets.  The parks department seem to be ok with that but I  thought the law said that a cafe must have it's own toilets?

It's all quite complex.  The laws do provide power to local authorities to set provision of when a food or drinks vendor premises must provide toilet facilities to customers.  However, it is filled with lots of caveats regarding whether the premises is predominantly take away or how many seats it has, or whether it operates beyond certain opening hours or whether it has feasible size to make such provisions without giving risk to customers or employees...

 

There is also a complete separation within the laws between what a business has to provide for a staff and what it has to provide for its customers.  Again, another reason why, even if there is a toilet, it may be out of bounds for customers. 

 

It could be the case, that the park cafe falls between one of the exemptions.  

Edited May 4, 2023 by ECCOnoob

[Chekhov]

>>HeHasRisen said:
Thats fine then. Tell me where your shop is, I will bring my 9 year old niece in, we will ask to use your loo and then I will get her to trip over something you have left lying around and break her leg. Lets see what happens then with your liability insurance.<<

 

Incidentally, are you saying that the Co-Op leaves stuff "lying around" without worrying if their own staff trip over it ?

 

Are you saying that @HeHasRisen ?

[HeHasRisen]

2 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

>>HeHasRisen said:
Thats fine then. Tell me where your shop is, I will bring my 9 year old niece in, we will ask to use your loo and then I will get her to trip over something you have left lying around and break her leg. Lets see what happens then with your liability insurance.<<

 

Incidentally, are you saying that the Co-Op leaves stuff "lying around" without worrying if their own staff trip over it ?

 

Are you saying that @HeHasRisen ?

Dunno, am I? All I am saying it your liability insurance provider certainly wouldnt be happy, and probably wouldnt pay out, if my 9 year old niece had an accident in your back rooms whilst she went to use your staff only toilet.

 

Want to give it a go? Can bring her in next week one day after school, just let me know.

Edited May 4, 2023 by HeHasRisen

[Chekhov]

3 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

It's all quite complex.  The laws do provide power to local authorities to set provision of when a food or drinks vendor premises must provide toilet facilities to customers.  However, it is filled with lots of caveats regarding whether the premises is predominantly take away or how many seats it has, or whether it operates beyond certain opening hours or whether it has feasible size to make such provisions without giving risk to customers or employees...

There is also a complete separation within the laws between what a business has to provide for a staff and what it has to provide for its customers.  Again, another reason why, even if there is a toilet, it may be out of bounds for customers. 

It could be the case, that the park cafe falls between one of the exemptions.  

Surely it should be about customer service, not the law or regulations on businesses ?

 

That said, I do think Councils should have a statutory obligation to provide them, after all we all have to go, and doing it outdoors is considered unacceptable, it may even be illegal. Put the two together and I am surprised it isn't  a statutory obligation. It would seem to me that the council paying shops or whatever to provide loos would ne the cheapest and most efficient way round it, in fact I thought they already did that in places ?

 

5 minutes ago, HeHasRisen said:

Dunno, am I? All I am saying it your liability insurance provider certainly wouldnt be happy, and probably wouldnt pay out, if my 9 year old niece had an accident in your back rooms whilst she went to use your staff only toilet.

Want to give it a go? Can bring her in next week one day after school, just let me know.

Why should she have an accident any more than my own staff ? 

Just like my 9 year old lad who was desperate to go to the loo and Woodhouse Co-Op said sod off. Why should he have been more likely to have an accident than their own staff ?

Edited May 4, 2023 by Chekhov

[HeHasRisen]

4 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Surely it should be about customer service, not the law or regulations on businesses ?

 

That said, I do think Councils should have a statutory obligation to provide them, after all we all have to go, and doing it outdoors is considered unacceptable, it may even be illegal. Put the two together and I am surprised it isn't  a statutory obligation.

 

Why should she have an accident any more than my own staff ? 

Just like my 9 year old lad who was desperate to go to the loo and Woodhouse Co-Op said sod off. Why should he have been more likely to have an accident than their own staff ?

 No idea. Shall we find out? Pick a day I can bring my niece in to use your toilet.

 

Oh, and the obvious difference would be the shop insurance would cover staff having accidents in back areas, surely you arent that dim. Do you actually run your own business or is that just the "character" you have created on here for your own amusement?

Edited May 4, 2023 by HeHasRisen

[Meltman]

Where is this shop please? Just so I know so if passing I'll pop in and say hello. 

[Findlay]

There has been a number of public toilet threads over the years with the problem no better now than it was a decade ago.

You can judge a company or a city by its public conveniences which Sheffield unfortunately ranks below the water line.

Sheffield City has zero public loos, unlike Meadowhall which has plenty.

If a business has no toilet or is unusable then it's not worth my custom.

Are business owners that stupid they don't realize this simple and necessary need?

Edited May 4, 2023 by Findlay