Customer Toilet Unavailable (And The 'Social Conscience' Co Op May Be The Worst)

[redruby]

On 07/05/2023 at 21:41, Chekhov said:

So, let's get this right, you think most people (definition more than 50%), would be perfectly happy that a shop they are spending money in, particularly a supermarket, will not let them (or even worse their child) use the loo ?

You're having a laugh aren't you ?

 

You are talking absolute cobblers.

But if you are right then society in general, and the CoOp in particular, has lost its senses in a big big way.

It's lost most of my custom for a start. I will still shop there, but only if there is no alternative, and there usually will be.

You are definitely talking cobblers here.

This is all a smokescreen, it's got nothing to do with insurance or H&S, it's to do with staff not wanting to clean the loos and weak managers who know sod all about customer service.

Have you seen the state some members of the general public think it’s OK to leave toilets in?  The toilets in my workplace are never left in that state.

 

I think the real issue is that we have ever fewer public toilets and the burden of providing for this basic human need is being placed on business owners. Now, if that business sells food/drink in eat/drink on the premises then yes, toilets should of course be available for customers (and non customers at their discretion). If you think other shops should open up their staff toilets to the public on request then maybe you should ask yourself how you’d feel about a random stranger knocking on your door at home and asking if their child could use your toilet because ‘they’re desperate’?  I’m aware it’s a different situation but the similar issues apply - something could be stolen, confidential information could be seen, someone’s personal safety could be at risk. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by redruby

[Resident]

On 11/05/2023 at 21:00, Palomar said:

...and here's me thinking shopkeeper breaking the law trumps toilet unavailable.

Small businesses, like Justin here, don't want to switch to full time card use because it's then near impossible to cook the book for the taxes given there are electronic records that can be requested by HMRC.

Nearly every time I here the argument against cashless usage, it's usually a small business owner/self-employer trader spouting "cash is king" etc. Main area I've had issues with card use is Taxis. 

[Annie Bynnol]

12 minutes ago, Resident said:

Small businesses, like Justin here, don't want to switch to full time card use because it's then near impossible to cook the book for the taxes given there are electronic records that can be requested by HMRC.
Nearly every time I here the argument against cashless usage, it's usually a small business owner/self-employer trader spouting "cash is king" etc. Main area I've had issues with card use is Taxis. 

   A family business owner told me that the HMRC regular trawl for mismatches in payment methods between the 'mean' for that business type and that declared by a business. in that sector.  For example if the mean method of payment for an Ice Cream van nationally is 60% cash and 40% card and a business declares 90% cash then maybe it's worth a second look. One of our builders said they does not do 'cash in hand' anymore as when they were investigated they could not explain the mismatch between supplier receipts, dates and payments from customers. They take a Credit Card in preference to a Debit Card as it offers them a level of protection from bad customers.

    If a business won't accept a Credit Card then I am not protected and I would have to seek redress myself if the product or service sold is inadequate, faulty, etc. Paying on separate cards for makes accounting far easier. 

    Personally I find local businesses far more reliable and a better option than the internet and I have kept with them.

     

[redruby]

I thought this thread was about toilets not about going cashless?  

Anyway I’ve been I’ve had a few experiences where the card machine hasn’t been working and I’ve been very pleased to have cash instead which I could just hand over saving a lot of time whilst they mess about trying to get the machine working. Also, I recently used a car park (not in Sheffield) where the parking meter was surrounded by several people mucking about trying to install a payment app on their phones. I just chucked a few coins in meter and was done in seconds.  Don’t get me wrong, I use card and phone payments sometimes but cashless? Definitely not!

 

 

[hackey lad]

9 hours ago, redruby said:

I thought this thread was about toilets not about going cashless?  

Anyway I’ve been I’ve had a few experiences where the card machine hasn’t been working and I’ve been very pleased to have cash instead which I could just hand over saving a lot of time whilst they mess about trying to get the machine working. Also, I recently used a car park (not in Sheffield) where the parking meter was surrounded by several people mucking about trying to install a payment app on their phones. I just chucked a few coins in meter and was done in seconds.  Don’t get me wrong, I use card and phone payments sometimes but cashless? Definitely not!

 

 

Cash is king 

[spilldig]

13 hours ago, hackey lad said:

Cash is king 

And hopefully for a long time to come.

[melthebell]

14 hours ago, hackey lad said:

Cash is king 

Liar, Charles is

[Chekhov]

On 14/05/2023 at 07:28, redruby said:

Have you seen the state some members of the general public think it’s OK to leave toilets in?  The toilets in my If you think other shops should open up their staff toilets to the public on request then maybe you should ask yourself how you’d feel about a random stranger knocking on your door at home and asking if their child could use your toilet because ‘they’re desperate’?  I’m aware it’s a different situation but the similar issues apply - something could be stolen, confidential information could be seen, someone’s personal safety could be at risk. 

TBH if a "random stranger" asked me if their young child could use our loo I would not have the heart to say no.

But this is a false argument anyway because it is not "a random stranger" it is a customer spending money with the shop, and it is a business premises not a private home.

 

Thanks for confirming something I concluded years ago though, pressure for this "no customers to use the staff loo" is not really anything to do with "insurance" or "Health & Safety" (to paraphrase Samuel Johnson : these days  H&S is the last refuge of  a scoundrel, in my experience) but because the staff don't want to have to clean them. Some people (not me however) might say that is understandable, but I just wish people would be more honest about it....

 

On 14/05/2023 at 08:55, Resident said:

Small businesses, like Justin here, don't want to switch to full time card use because it's then near impossible to cook the book for the taxes given there are electronic records that can be requested by HMRC.
Nearly every time I here the argument against cashless usage, it's usually a small business owner/self-employer trader spouting "cash is king" etc. Main area I've had issues with card use is Taxis. 

I resent your implication. Absolutely everything is put through the books in my business, mainly because I am naturally an honest person, but additionally it would be far too complicated to effectively run two sets of books. Life is too complicated as it is....

As regards trying to avoid tax it is not the method of payment that is significant but if an invoice or receipt is issued.

As it happens your post is way off anyway because the VAST majority of my turnover is via card, either Online, or purchases by card over the phone. The bottom line is the average purchase is well over £50, not a poxy £1.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Chekhov

[HeHasRisen]

6 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

TBH if a "random stranger" asked me if their young child could use our loo I would not have the heart to say no.

But this is a false argument anyway because it is not "a random stranger" it is a customer spending money with the shop, and it is a business premises not a private home.

Ah, here we go. So if I came into your shop, with the intention of spending absolutely nothing, would you still let me use your staff toilet?

Edited May 15, 2023 by HeHasRisen

[melthebell]

22 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

TBH if a "random stranger" asked me if their young child could use our loo I would not have the heart to say no.

But this is a false argument anyway because it is not "a random stranger" it is a customer spending money with the shop, and it is a business premises not a private home.

 

 

Nope, some may, my last place despite being a ship we still had random people coming in just to use the toilets, some would even lie saying they would spend money, some would ask for the cafe, i was on the door i'd see exactly how long they stayed on board, i'd say at least 90% didnt stay to spend any money.

I've done it, gone in the co op in whitby (when they had toilets) or a pub, just to use the toilets.