I Haven't Changed My Politics, It's Society And Politics That Has Changed

[Mister Gee]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

"The silent majority" do exist.

I cannot remember ever having met anyone who agrees with removing historical statues, or who thinks trans rights are so important they trump free speech or women only spaces or women only sports. Nor have I met anyone who does anything other than laugh when they're quoted the ludicrous acronym LGBTQI+.

To the majority, probably the great majority, these are non issues. Yet the media imply everyone, or even most people, are really bothered by it all. They're not, they're too busy laughing at how preposterous it is.

But the point is, even if you disagree, there is no doubt at all that 20 or 30 years ago almost everyone would have laughed at these ideas, i.e. the world has moved to a more left wing authoritarian stance.

 

I am not blaming the left, I am saying society has become more left wing and authoritarian. I am fully aware that the most authoritarian actions taken by any government in this country, possibly forever, were taken by a Tory government, namely the draconian Covid restrictions. Obviously Labour were egging them on and wanting even more of it, but the Tories had a huge majority and did not have to succumb to that pressure. Which just proves that even the Tory party are, compared to 20 or 30 years ago, left wing and authoritarian.

My sixteen year old daughter as just had a right giggle at this post.

[Delayed]

6 hours ago, Chekhov said:

How far has society and politics moved to the authoritarian left  in the last few decades?

 

In another thread @Palomar suggested I had moved way to the right, politically speaking, I answered his point on that thread but feel this subject deserves its own thread.

Charlton Heston (a 1960s freedom marcher BTW) was once asked why he'd moved to the right from the Democrats that he used to support, and he answered it's not me that's changed it's the Democrats. Similarly I do not think I, or most people, have "moved to the right", it is politics and society that in the last 20 or so years has moved significantly to the autocratic left. Stuff that's taken for "normal" these days would have been laughed at only 20 years ago, certainly 30 years ago.

 

Can you imagine in the 1990s a speaker being no platformed because they didn't believe people could change their sex with the stroke of a pen ?

Or historic monuments being torn down and/or having their names changed for something that happened over 200 years ago and was legal then ?

Or that the whole of society was forced to stay at home and schools closed for months on end because of a virus with a 1 in 100 death rate ?

Or that parents who want to photograph their own kids at school or competing at anything are thought to be "selfish" ?

Or that the police could be called because someone was offended by a joke ?

Or that people's holidays (and even heating) will be taxed out of reach !

 

Consequently I would say that it's people who support all this kind of stuff are the ones who have moved socially and politically, not me, or most people : the silent majority.

4 paragraphs to say : I'm right, everyone else is wrong

[Anna B]

3 hours ago, Chekhov said:

"The silent majority" do exist.

I cannot remember ever having met anyone who agrees with removing historical statues, or who thinks trans rights are so important they trump free speech or women only spaces or women only sports. Nor have I met anyone who does anything other than laugh when they're quoted the ludicrous acronym LGBTQI+.

To the majority, probably the great majority, these are non issues. Yet the media imply everyone, or even most people, are really bothered by it all. They're not, they're too busy laughing at how preposterous it is.

But the point is, even if you disagree, there is no doubt at all that 20 or 30 years ago almost everyone would have laughed at these ideas, i.e. the world has moved to a more left wing authoritarian stance.

 

I am not blaming the left, I am saying society has become more left wing and authoritarian. I am fully aware that the most authoritarian actions taken by any government in this country, possibly forever, were taken by a Tory government, namely the draconian Covid restrictions. Obviously Labour were egging them on and wanting even more of it, but the Tories had a huge majority and did not have to succumb to that pressure. Which just proves that even the Tory party are, compared to 20 or 30 years ago, left wing and authoritarian.

The 'authoritarianism' of the far left and the 'fascism' of the far right are actually pretty much the same thing. They kind of join up round the back, so calling and blaming right or left is a bit pointless. 

 

I agree that LBTQI+, and toppling statues etc. are given more prominence than they probably deserve, most people don't care that much (including my gay friends,) they just want to get on with their own lives and are perfectly  happy to let other people live and let live.

But we live in the times of 24hour news - they have to fill the airtime with something..., anything..., and then it gets repeated endlessly throughout the day and night and quite often the next day too, and the next. This is annoying no matter what the news story and IMO actually provokes strong reactions that it doesn't warrant. 

 

People need to chill, turn the telly off, and social media, and do something productive, maybe even have a chat and glass of vino with real people for a change. 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Anna B

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Delayed said:

4 paragraphs to say : I'm right, everyone else is wrong

Exactly,    just repeating the same old phrases in every different post too .

Too much worrying about what the media says and whether people are left or right.   Turn the TV off,  switch off the computer and smart phone and just start living.

 

We decide for ourselves what's important to us and we interest ourselves in the things that matter to us.

I sometimes see a long row of abbreviations and don't really know what they signify but I've got through 80 odd years without knowing so what's it matter.

We have to try and fit in this crazy world but do it without giving in too much.  I can't think of any of the simple pleasures that we can no longer do so carry on enjoying them.

I think people who are as unhappy as Chekhov,  are too bound up with modern life and  media etc when most of it is meaningless except to those who want to influence us but don't let them.

Don't worry whether other people agree or what they think, we were all meant to be different anyway and don't let others gag you,  .  Anna's post makes a lot of sense too. 

I believe I'm one of the majority but I'm not silent and never will be whilst I breathe.  Others can have their views but not impose them on me.  Let life be water off a ducks back.

[Chekhov]

17 hours ago, Mister M said:

The term is used in the political sense to denote those who are defined as 'mainstream'.

I'm not sure that any attempt has been made to study this group, probably because it's so ill defined.

Can I just clarify what you appear to be saying. Are you saying that it is "mainstream" (as in what most people think) that historic statues  should be ripped down or historic buildings or institutions should have their names changed, because of possible links to slavery ? Something that happened over 200 years ago and was legal at the time ?

If so I think you should get out more and talk to "ordinary" people, as I have never talked to anyone who thinks like that. I mean face to face, not people virtue signalling on social media.

17 hours ago, Mister M said:

I think perhaps it was yourself I responded to when this was raised, is either widen your circle of friends, or at least encourage the friends you do have to walk a mile the shoes of someone who doesn't fit the hetero '2.4 kids' model of life.

I don't particularly like being part of an acronym either, but in political and marketing terms, that's what we've been reduced to  whether it's YUPPIES, DINKS, CHAVS 

Once again, if you thought that the people who lived life outside your bubble is as described in some journalist's imagination, then you'd be disappointed by the reality.

I know people of all ages, with and without kids, "middle class" or "working class".

None supports ripping down statues, and all laugh at the acronym LGBTQI+. Who are these people who come up with this nonsense ? Quite apart from anything else what have LGBTQI+ got in common ? Very little, if anything. It is an artificial concept, as well as sounding ridiculous.

[Chekhov]

17 hours ago, Mister M said:

That hasn't happened because of a more left wing, authoritarian stance. In fact I think it was Margaret Thatcher and Janet Young who with a right wing authoritarian stance introduced Section 28 in IIRC 1986. 

How was Thatcher authoritarian (and I speak as someone who was no fan of hers).

 

Definition of authoritarian :

 

favouring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

 

That said I think it would gave been a blessing of she had been PM when Covid struck. Someone who never chased short term popularity, had the courage of her own convictions, correctly thought "advisors advise and ministers decide", and, most significantly, was  a trained scientist.

[harvey19]

If people feel so strongly about the slave trade why not demolish all the buildings built with that money and destroy everything else that profited from it ?

In years gone by we would have told people not be so daft about things but how things have changed.

[Chekhov]

13 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Chekhov,  are too bound up with modern life and  media etc when most of it is meaningless

You think it is "meaningless" that a parent is prevented (for no good reason incidentally) from videoing this child racing in a gala ? Something that would certainly not have been banned 30 or even 20 years ago.

You quite obviously do not have a child, or a grand child, who swims in galas, and even less likely, wins them.

Even if you haven't, where is your much signalled empathy ?

3 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

If people feel so strongly about the slave trade why not demolish all the buildings built with that money and destroy everything else that profited from it ?

In years gone by we would have told people not be so daft about things but how things have changed.

You are right Harvey. Colston paid for much in Bristol, he was a respected philanthropist.

Same with Rhodes and Oxford university.

They are top grade hypocrites.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

You think it is "meaningless" that a parent is prevented (for no good reason incidentally) from videoing this child racing in a gala ? Something that would certainly not have been banned 30 or even 20 years ago.

You quite obviously do not have a child, or a grand child, who swims in galas, and even less likely, wins them.

Even if you haven't, where is your much signalled empathy ?

You do talk daft sometimes.

I have had children, grandchildren and great grandchildren and I remember being prevented from videoing one of my grandchildren at a school show.

I was initially very annoyed about it in the same way as you and demanded to know why.  Unlike you,  when the reasons were explained to me  ( safeguarding ),  I could see it made a kind of sense and accepted it.

After all,  you can make videos at home, on holiday, in the park, in the city centre and virtually anywhere you like.   Chekhov,  being Chekhov has to cry for the rest of his life and refuses to accept anything.

I swam in my school gala in the 1940's and was not filmed or photographed doing it and it has done me no harm at all and it didn't upset the path of life for any of my family, most of all who are now dead.

So it wasn't for no good reason that you were prevented from filming and yes, I think it's meaningless.  Love your kids with all your heart but you don't need film of every single moment of their lives.

The empathy is in the love,   and also in the misery if you lose some of them as I have,    and the media is not what's important.  -      you seem to think, as always,  that it's the media that matters.

Like many people,  your world is obviously bound up with possessions  but,   like money,  you can't take the media with you.    You have to bank your lovely memories in your heart.   they go where you go.

 

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

How was Thatcher authoritarian (and I speak as someone who was no fan of hers).

 

Definition of authoritarian :

 

favouring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

 

You would have thought she was authoritarian if she destroyed the main source of work and money in the town, village or city where you lived.

When the shops, pubs, clubs and cinemas started closing and you found you had moved from a fairly prosperous and happy little place to a miserable ghost town without actually moving at all.

Where's your empathy now?                                 And don't quote definitions at us   -   a lot of us were here and properly educated before you were even a twinkle in your dads eye.