Teacher Berates Student For Refusing To Accept Other Child's 'Identity'

[Guest]

The cat thing is a ridiculous red herring.  From that first article it's clear that the girl was using it as a something that she considers to be as ridiculous as a biological boy saying he's a girl.  Hyperbole and obviously distracting, and useful for the disingenuous, but clearly not the point she was attempting to make; remember, this is a 13 year old (though those who've gleefully glommed on to the story will have to find other excuses).

 

The main point should be that instead of encouraging debate and discussion the teacher not only literally shouted down a girl who was challenging the ideas presented by the teacher, but  attempted to shut down the discussion and punish her:

 

"...if you don’t like it you need to go to a different school ... I’m reporting you to [senior staff], you need to have a proper educational conversation about equality, diversity and inclusion because I’m not having that expressed in my lesson."

 

I hope that was a substitute metalwork teacher sitting in for the biology teacher or something, because if not that school has issues other than a feisty kid posting recordings of her teacher online (do schools still do detention?)

[Prettytom]

49 minutes ago, Hecate said:

The cat thing is a ridiculous red herring.  From that first article it's clear that the girl was using it as a something that she considers to be as ridiculous as a biological boy saying he's a girl.  Hyperbole and obviously distracting, and useful for the disingenuous, but clearly not the point she was attempting to make; remember, this is a 13 year old (though those who've gleefully glommed on to the story will have to find other excuses).

 

The main point should be that instead of encouraging debate and discussion the teacher not only literally shouted down a girl who was challenging the ideas presented by the teacher, but  attempted to shut down the discussion and punish her:

 

"...if you don’t like it you need to go to a different school ... I’m reporting you to [senior staff], you need to have a proper educational conversation about equality, diversity and inclusion because I’m not having that expressed in my lesson."

 

I hope that was a substitute metalwork teacher sitting in for the biology teacher or something, because if not that school has issues other than a feisty kid posting recordings of her teacher online (do schools still do detention?)

I agree entirely, but do consider the teacher’s position too. Whatever they say risks being recorded, or filmed and then pushed through the distorting lens of social media.  So, many teachers are now fearful of engaging in discussion of sensitive subjects, for fear of trial by Facebook. It’s easier, and generally safer to stick to some sort of party line.

 

The media have a role to lay in this, as do the government and senior teachers . Some properly structured guidance is desperately needed, or we will continue to have fearful teachers making poor decisions .. We will forever have pith taking kids. All teachers need to learn how to deal with those.

 

Incidentally, Kemi had better get her typewriter a new ribbon. There’s a lot of it about.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Prettytom

[Guest]

8 hours ago, peak4 said:

... Equalities Minister Kemi Badenoch has today demanded a snap inspection of Rye College over a fake cat story. ...

The selective quoting on social media of only the introductory, context-defining, paragraph of that letter is rather devious.  The letter is concerned with the application of equalities law, specifically that gender-critical beliefs are protected under the 2010 Equalities Act.  The letter goes on to discuss the possibility of breach of the political impartiality requirements of the 1996 Education Act.  Not because of some distracting cat identification nonsense, but because of shutting down discussion of gender identity and biological sex.

 

Now, accuse her of opportunistic grandstanding if you like, but as Minister for Women and Equalities she's right to suggest that this is something that needs to be examined. 

 

Again, the cat thing is a distraction, and one that's being used beyond The Daily Mail and the usual array of frothers.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Prettytom said:

I agree entirely, but do consider the teacher’s position too. Whatever they say risks being recorded, or filmed and then pushed through the distorting lens of social media.  So, many teachers are now fearful of engaging in discussion of sensitive subjects, for fear of trial by Facebook. It’s easier, and generally safer to stick to some sort of party line.

 

The media have a role to lay in this, as do the government and senior teachers . Some properly structured guidance is desperately needed, or we will continue to have fearful teachers making poor decisions .. We will forever have pith taking kids. All teachers need to learn how to deal with those.

 

Incidentally, Kemi had better get her typewriter a new ribbon. There’s a lot of it about.

I think the teacher is out of her depth, poorly advised and completely wrong to shut down the discussion with such condemnation of the girl's views, though of course in the context of your points I do have sympathy for her position. 

 

I'm sure she's mortified and furious that a recording of part of her lesson has been uploaded to TikTok or Facebook or wherever, and if the girl is to be reprimanded for anything it's for doing that.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Guest

[Prettytom]

2 hours ago, Hecate said:

I think the teacher is out of her depth, poorly advised and completely wrong to shut down the discussion with such condemnation of the girl's views, though of course in the context of your points I do have sympathy for her position. 

 

I'm sure she's mortified and furious that a recording of part of her lesson has been uploaded to TikTok or Facebook or wherever, and if the girl is to be reprimanded for anything it's for doing that.

The thing that we don’t know, is the context. It’s perfectly possible that this is the culmination of a series of similar interactions between the pupils and that particular teacher, hence the rather curt shutting down of the discussion. Kids do pursue teachers and goad them. 

 

The teacher probably is out of their depth, many would be in a similar situation. I’ve no

idea what the answer is, but I’m fairly sure that it doesn’t involve TikTok or the Daily Mail.

[ThePilot]

7 hours ago, Hecate said:

I think the teacher is out of her depth, poorly advised and completely wrong to shut down the discussion with such condemnation of the girl's views, though of course in the context of your points I do have sympathy for her position. 

 

I'm sure she's mortified and furious that a recording of part of her lesson has been uploaded to TikTok or Facebook or wherever, and if the girl is to be reprimanded for anything it's for doing that.

I believe that the recording was not of part of a lesson.

It was reported that the two girls were kept back after the lesson to discuss what had occurred and it was this discussion/reprimand that was recorded

LBC got it wrong in this instance.

[sheffbag]

Audio from it. The teacher is just going off on one

[Guest]

21 hours ago, Prettytom said:

The thing that we don’t know, is the context. It’s perfectly possible that this is the culmination of a series of similar interactions between the pupils and that particular teacher, hence the rather curt shutting down of the discussion. Kids do pursue teachers and goad them. 

 

The teacher probably is out of their depth, many would be in a similar situation. I’ve no

idea what the answer is, but I’m fairly sure that it doesn’t involve TikTok or the Daily Mail.

This is all true.  But did that sound like a girl goading a teacher?  Maybe my radar's still tuned to schools on the Manor, but to me it sounded wearily familiar: discussion shut down by a 'no debate' activist rather than a teacher dealing with a disruptive pupil.

 

I think there's also a tiny element here of shooting the detestable messenger - as early reports of the activity of Gids at the Tavistock were received before The Observer, Hannah Barnes et al followed it up - leading to dismissal of an issue about which schools are due to receive long-awaited official guidance.

 

Of course, some folk will gleefully and cynically stoke the notion that Stonewall-influenced activism is thoroughly endemic in schools.  Perhaps a change of messenger might bring some clarity.

 

17 hours ago, ThePilot said:

I believe that the recording was not of part of a lesson.

It was reported that the two girls were kept back after the lesson to discuss what had occurred and it was this discussion/reprimand that was recorded

LBC got it wrong in this instance.

Whether the exchange was part of the lesson or took place after it, the girl shouldn't have recorded the conversation, or uploaded it to social media, without first obtaining the consent of all involved in the conversation.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Guest

[Prettytom]

1 hour ago, Hecate said:

This is all true.  But did that sound like a girl goading a teacher?  Maybe my radar's still tuned to schools on the Manor, but to me it sounded wearily familiar: discussion shut down by a 'no debate' activist rather than a teacher dealing with a disruptive pupil.

 

 

I’ve reffed hundreds of those sort of things. Quite a few in a large school on the manor😁 what I would say is that it is difficult to uncover the truth and the motives of the protagonists, This could be an activist refusing to listen, or it could be part of an ongoing row between the teacher and the kids/parents.

 

In this case, the teacher should have cut that discussion short and tried again later, with another member of staff present. Most schools have guidance about dealing with sensitive issues on a one to one basis. Generally, that guidance amounts to “don’t do it”.

 

Using a single interaction between kids and a teacher to inflame such a debate, isn’t really helpful. The social media companies need to stop hosting stuff like this and newspapers should be held to account if they publish it. 
 

As for ten million genders/biological sex/ identifying as a unicorn. It’s time that the DFE put out proper guidance about what should and should not be taught. The rules for general sex education are pretty tight. There is no reason why the gender debate shouldn’t be equally tightly framed within the secondary school curriculum.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Prettytom

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Prettytom said:

I’ve reffed hundreds of those sort of things. Quite a few in a large school on the manor😁 what I would say is that it is difficult to uncover the truth and the motives of the protagonists, This could be an activist refusing to listen, or it could be part of an ongoing row between the teacher and the kids/parents.

 

In this case, the teacher should have cut that discussion short and tried again later, with another member of staff present. Most schools have guidance about dealing with sensitive issues on a one to one basis. Generally, that guidance amounts to “don’t do it”.

 

Using a single interaction between kids and a teacher to inflame such a debate, isn’t really helpful. The social media companies need to stop hosting stuff like this and newspapers should be held to account if they publish it. 
 

As for ten million genders/biological sex/ identifying as a unicorn. It’s time that the DFE put out proper guidance about what should and should not be taught. The rules for general sex education are pretty tight. There is no reason why the gender debate shouldn’t be equally tightly framed within the secondary school curriculum.

If gender identity and biological sex is being taught/discussed as part of lessons in schools then the controversial nature of the subject is unavoidable and disagreement is inevitable.  It's not like in those lessons presentation and discussion of different views is a disruptive tangent that needs special treatment outside class; it's integral to the subject, or at least should be, and that shouldn't include a view being subsequently dismissed as despicable or equating gender-critical statements with homophobia.

 

It's easy to dismiss and excuse reports such as this one, and the others that preceded it, as misleading, manipulative, mischievous or just entirely made up, but it does reflect reality for dissenting girls and women who're essentially being told to shut up and sit down in the classroom and the workplace.