Fargate Redevelopment

[RollingJ]

18 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

The people everywhere else ask the same question for their town or city.

 

Theres nothing different about here. That’s just how long these things take.

Why? Unless they have been working underground for a month, nothing has changed on there between 06/07/23 and yesterday afternoon when I passed through .

[hackey lad]

1 hour ago, Planner1 said:

The people everywhere else ask the same question for their town or city.

 

Theres nothing different about here. That’s just how long these things take.

[Planner1]

1 hour ago, RollingJ said:

Why? Unless they have been working underground for a month, nothing has changed on there between 06/07/23 and yesterday afternoon when I passed through .

Unless you have been watching the site all day, every day, you don’t know what’s been going on.

 

I don’t know exactly what’s happening on that site, I rarely go past there nowadays. But things happen on construction sites for a reason, according to a programme.
 

Sometimes there are problems of various kinds and it slows progress and it doesn’t look like anything is happening. It’s just a factor of working in a public place with lots of constraints.

 

You hear the same moans wherever you go. Where’s the worst traffic congestion? Here. Where does it take the longest to get anything done? Here. Whose is the worst Council? Ours. Exactly the same complaints wherever.

 

 

[RollingJ]

3 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

Unless you have been watching the site all day, every day, you don’t know what’s been going on. (1)

 

I don’t know exactly what’s happening on that site, I rarely go past there nowadays. But things happen on construction sites for a reason, according to a programme.
 

Sometimes there are problems of various kinds and it slows progress and it doesn’t look like anything is happening. It’s just a factor of working in a public place with lots of constraints. (2)

 

You hear the same moans wherever you go. Where’s the worst traffic congestion? Here. Where does it take the longest to get anything done? Here. Whose is the worst Council? Ours. Exactly the same complaints wherever.

 

 

(1) Nice get out - Who in their right minds spends all day in one location - unless of course they work there? Next time I visit a couple of the shops on there, I'll have a word with the staff in them - as a fairly regular customer in one of them, I usually have a few words if they aren't too busy.

 

(2) I would have thought forward planning and careful scheduling  should minimise those.

[HeHasRisen]

No no no mate, a council being a bit slow with a street redevelopment is much worse than a council that went bankrupt and than whacked 15% onto everyone's council tax as a result. 

[RollingJ]

9 minutes ago, HeHasRisen said:

No no no mate, a council being a bit slow with a street redevelopment is much worse than a council that went bankrupt and than whacked 15% onto everyone's council tax as a result. 

What has that got to do with my observation that they are very slow with a development that is affecting all the shops on the W.H . Smith side of Fargate and will have an equal effect on the other side - if they ever get there?

Edited August 20, 2023 by RollingJ

[Planner1]

1 hour ago, RollingJ said:

(1) Nice get out - Who in their right minds spends all day in one location - unless of course they work there? Next time I visit a couple of the shops on there, I'll have a word with the staff in them - as a fairly regular customer in one of them, I usually have a few words if they aren't too busy.

 

(2) I would have thought forward planning and careful scheduling  should minimise those.

The point is that your visits are infrequent and you don’t know what’s going on ( or not) and why, but you feel free to criticise from a position of zero knowledge.

 

Of course multi million pound projects are planned, scheduled and project managed. But, no matter how hard you try, sometimes things that need to happen, can’t be arranged in the most efficient way for your project. That sometimes means there are pauses in the works and nothing much is happening on site. 
 

Works to buried services and utilities are often a case in point. Buried services often aren’t where their owners think they are and that can cause lots of problems for even the best planned project. Utilities often have lengthy lead-in times for getting services, shifted, diverted, installed. 
 

If you are that bothered, why not ask the council or their contractors who are doing the works?

[RollingJ]

The point is - my visits are infrequent, intentionally - I don't work in the city centre, never have, and only take place when I have a need or wish to make them, which means that I see the level of activity at those points - admittedly.

 

However, because my visits are infrequent, it would be reasonable to assume I would notice any changes more than someone making more frequent visits, don't you agree? and I have seen no discernable change over that  6 week period.

 

Your oft-repeated claims that utilities don't know where there services are is, shall we say, a little worrying if they don't know where they are, how can the maintain, modify or service them? One would assume that records are maintained - at some level, surely?

 

If a project of this value is envisaged, does not the lead authority liaise with those utilities at the planning stage and say - 'look, we are planning a major project which may affect your plant/services, what are your latest records showing, so we can co-ordinate operations?'

 

I bet if I, as a member of the public, asked these questions, I would be stone-walled at every possible stage - 'commercial confidentiality' being the usual 'go away' message, and after a certain episode which resulted in a lengthy  inquiry, and equally long report, I have no trust in the council anyway.

[ads36]

There are a few snags with the work on Fargate:

 

un-known voids : they did expect to find a few, they have, and these slow things down, so extra time was built into the plan.

 

un-identified power cables : they did expect to find a few, they have, and these slow things down, so extra time was built into the plan.

 

There's an absolute frenzy of building work going on at the moment: from the materials and work-force blackhole that we call 'HS2', to a raft of other city-centre projects around the country. i don't know if this *has* impacted the availability of specialists required to survey, plan, and sign-off the remedial void/cable work, but it would be a chuffing miracle if it hasn't.  This workforce shortage was expected, and these things slow things down, so extra time was built into the plan.

 

and of course, right now it's summer holidays. i can't speak for SCC, but we've definitely been allowing for the affect of summer-slowdowns into our project plans. One of our Technical Leads has just come back from a 3 week holiday, and now he's effectively part-time with childcare responsibilities.

Edited August 21, 2023 by ads36

[Planner1]

On 20/08/2023 at 19:05, RollingJ said:

 

Your oft-repeated claims that utilities don't know where there services are is, shall we say, a little worrying if they don't know where they are, how can the maintain, modify or service them? One would assume that records are maintained - at some level, surely?

 

If a project of this value is envisaged, does not the lead authority liaise with those utilities at the planning stage and say - 'look, we are planning a major project which may affect your plant/services, what are your latest records showing, so we can co-ordinate operations?'

 

I bet if I, as a member of the public, asked these questions, I would be stone-walled at every possible stage - 'commercial confidentiality' being the usual 'go away' message, and after a certain episode which resulted in a lengthy  inquiry, and equally long report, I have no trust in the council anyway.

This might give you an idea of the utilities search process.

 

Anyone who works in highways will tell you that the records held by utilities are not comprehensive or exact. They can only give you approximate locations and don’t guarantee the accuracy of information. That’s why, as well as making the usual enquiries, designers have their own on site surveys done including ground penetrating radar, electromagnetic surveys and trial excavations etc.

 

Despite all the efforts, unrecorded and undetected services often turn up and plant is often not where the utility thinks it is.

 

Thats why scheme promoters make large risk and contingency allowances in scheme budgets for dealing with unexpected utilities costs. Everyone tries to minimise the risks, but they can and do materialise and can have big impacts in terms of cost and delay.