Fargate Redevelopment

[Irene Swaine]

Fargate was much better in the 1990s. There was the fountain, and a regular market (not just Christmas) at the top of Fargate, Orchard Square was booming with Virgin Megastore and the department store where TK Maxx is now that had the rocket lift. There were jewellers, all of the High Street names you can think of and Cole's Corner was more vibrant, partly thanks to the market at the Cathedral across. The benches were occupied with people on days out and shoppers catching their breath. They are nowadays occupied with spice heads passed out. With HSBC moving to The Moor and the recent departure of Next, Fargate is being refilled with "Emergency Sale" pop up stores and vape shops these days. I'd ruch rather see a L'Occitane or a Rituals sprouting up. 

[ECCOnoob]

1 hour ago, Irene Swaine said:

Fargate was much better in the 1990s. There was the fountain, and a regular market (not just Christmas) at the top of Fargate, Orchard Square was booming with Virgin Megastore and the department store where TK Maxx is now that had the rocket lift. There were jewellers, all of the High Street names you can think of and Cole's Corner was more vibrant, partly thanks to the market at the Cathedral across. The benches were occupied with people on days out and shoppers catching their breath. They are nowadays occupied with spice heads passed out. With HSBC moving to The Moor and the recent departure of Next, Fargate is being refilled with "Emergency Sale" pop up stores and vape shops these days. I'd ruch rather see a L'Occitane or a Rituals sprouting up. 

How the hell would you have real experience of fargate in the 1990s. You 'late 20s something' would have been merely a child at best and your memories are rose tinted viewpoints from dangling off your parent's arm.

 

I am a lot older than you claim to be but I have no memories of these regular market stalls all over Fargate and Cathedral Square.  Are you sure that you are not getting confused with The Moor. 

 

Goodwin Fountain was removed in 1998 and certainly in the early years after you claim to have been born into the world, it was already a broken, graffiti, litter strewed eyesore so good riddance as far as I'm concerned

 

TK Maxx has been there in the same spot since 1997.  That 'department store' with a rocket lift was TK Maxx until they did a complete refurb.  Really surprised you don't remember that vividly given you are the master of recalling so much.

 

Yes, like everything the high street of Fargate  declined over the years as shopping habits changed. Plus closure of several names from Fargate also were not helped by the obvious fact that several of them were all owned by the same parent company which went into administration. Topshop, Topman, Evans, Dorothy Perkins and Miss Selfridge all went pop at the same time all leaving gaps in the street.  A symptom which is being felt by cities up and down the land.  

 

Many of the buildings right now are undergoing major regeneration representing millions of pounds and investment.  But lets not pretend there are no names left. Boots is still there as is Marks and Spencer, Superdrug, Lush, Hotel Chocolat, WHSmith, H&M, Tesco, several banks, two coffee shops and several food vendors...... its not all dodgy fly by night pop ups.  The scales are still balanced in favour of the big boys.  

 

Orchard Square has also undergone massive regeneration and repurposing.  Its new focus on food and drink has created a new buzz.  Some of those venues are attracting more footfall than the aging shops ever did.  

 

Yes I would like to see some more premium stores myself but the city already has branches of Rituals and L'occitane in Meadowhall plus Atkinsons on The Moor stocks products from  L'occitane as well so hardly the best example.  Besides, there is a whole area being built right now around Cambridge Street and the former Leah's Yard with units being designed and sold to attract the smaller, more boutique, quality retailers - it's a whole part of the development plan  to go alongside the premium apartments and upmarket hotel opening next year.  

 

As for 'Coles Corner' you wouldn't even know what that was other than some reference brought up by presumably your grandparents Cole Brothers moved away from fargate in 1963. In the 80s it held the glamour of a gas showroom and then by the 90s that so called 'vibrant' Coles Corner was a bank until HSBC moved out when it was left abandoned for many years before finally Pret moved in - so lets not get too gooey eyed.  Add on for nearly half of the 90s decade that specific area would have been majorly disrupted with severe roadworks for tram installation anyway. 

 

You really do have some strange outlook.  The city is evolving with many aspects designed to attract your generation and yet you speak like a jaded 75-year-old wittering on about the 'city in decline' and how it was all sooo better in the olden days. 

 

I've never known anything like it from a so-called 20 something. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by ECCOnoob

[Irene Swaine]

4 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

How the hell would you have real experience of fargate in the 1990s. You 'late 20s something' would have been merely a child at best a

Yes,I do remember my childhood, as do many people.

 

4 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Orchard Square has also undergone massive regeneration and repurposing.

It's lost its toilet facilities, a major draw for footfall in to the complex. The food venue does look good, I will give you that but major brands such as Fat Face and Schuh have gone. The new logo/branding for Orchard Square is dull and un-remarkable. 

 

4 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Add on for nearly half of the 90s decade that specific area would have been majorly disrupted with severe roadworks for tram installation anyway. 

Supertram works on High Street were completed in 1994, the year before I was born. It's only the past 13 years or so that the problem with beggars has plagued the area around McDonald's. 

 

4 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Besides, there is a whole area being built right now around Cambridge Street and the former Leah's Yard with units being designed and sold to attract the smaller, more boutique, quality retailers - it's a whole part of the development plan  to go alongside the premium apartments and upmarket hotel opening next year. 

Time will tell. A hotel with no access for taxis at the front will be a bold move. The Christmas shop near where Grosvenor was is nice enough but the Monkl/Monkr/Monki shop is nothing to write home about, especially as it's unclear what it's called exactly. Pounds' Park is a great addition though but kids eating a packed lunch as mummy and daddy watch them from a bench isn't going to boost the ailing city centre economy. Work seems to have stalled on the re-pavement works outside there.

 

4 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

The city is evolving with many aspects designed to attract your generation and yet you speak like a jaded 75-year-old wittering on about the 'city in decline' and how it was all sooo better in the olden days. 

Just because I am less than 3 decades old does not mean I am riding around in Übers, ordering Sushi and bingewatching Netflix. The same way as someone born in the 1970s, such as yourself isn't necessarily sat drinking Babycham and planning the next visit to a discotechque. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Irene Swaine

[Guest]

4 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

How the hell would you have real experience of fargate in the 1990s. You 'late 20s something' would have been merely a child at best and your memories are rose tinted viewpoints from dangling off your parent's arm. ...

Irene's a twenty-something like I own a small island and a spacecraft.

[PapaLazarou]

Born in 1995?

 

Thats an incredible amount of detailed recollection for someone’s pre-school years, remembering the late 90s Fargate as she does.

 

Store names, and the vibrancy of Cole’s Corner.

 

I wish I could recall detail like that from when I was 2 to 4 or 5 years old.

 

Very impressive.

Edited December 28, 2023 by PapaLazarou

[Padders]

47 minutes ago, PapaLazarou said:

Born in 1995?

 

Thats an incredible amount of detailed recollection for someone’s pre-school years, remembering the late 90s Fargate as she does.

 

Store names, and the vibrancy of Cole’s Corner.

 

I wish I could recall detail like that from when I was 2 to 4 or 5 years old.

 

Very impressive.

To be fair Paps.

Irene is a good contributor to a dwindling Forum.

Always polite and will engage in conversation...

I always enjoy reading her posts and excellent replies she generates..

 

[hackey lad]

2 hours ago, Padders said:

To be fair Paps.

Irene is a good contributor to a dwindling Forum.

Always polite and will engage in conversation...

I always enjoy reading her posts and excellent replies she generates..

 

And some of them riding her are tedious in telling us how great it is/will be in town 

[ECCOnoob]

12 hours ago, Irene Swaine said:

Yes,I do remember my childhood, as do many people.

 

It's lost its toilet facilities, a major draw for footfall in to the complex. The food venue does look good, I will give you that but major brands such as Fat Face and Schuh have gone. The new logo/branding for Orchard Square is dull and un-remarkable. 

 

Supertram works on High Street were completed in 1994, the year before I was born. It's only the past 13 years or so that the problem with beggars has plagued the area around McDonald's. 

 

Time will tell. A hotel with no access for taxis at the front will be a bold move. The Christmas shop near where Grosvenor was is nice enough but the Monkl/Monkr/Monki shop is nothing to write home about, especially as it's unclear what it's called exactly. Pounds' Park is a great addition though but kids eating a packed lunch as mummy and daddy watch them from a bench isn't going to boost the ailing city centre economy. Work seems to have stalled on the re-pavement works outside there.

 

Just because I am less than 3 decades old does not mean I am riding around in Übers, ordering Sushi and bingewatching Netflix. The same way as someone born in the 1970s, such as yourself isn't necessarily sat drinking Babycham and planning the next visit to a discotechque. 

Yes, people do remember their childhood but you must have been extraordinary baby to have vivid memories under 5 years old of the intricacies of the Fargate shopping precinct.  You should offer yourself for medical science with your brain.

 

There are at least 8 different toilet facilities currently within Orchard Square. Those on legitimate reasons attending the businesses will have ample opportunities to go. There is even a disabled toilet at the back of the precinct for those with relevant medical needs.  The closure of the general public toilets was due to reasons of constant vandalism. The precinct has no obligation and given that it is turning more and more to food and drinking establishments, with  their own provision, it makes perfect commercial sense to get rid of the increasingly unnecessary and constantly abused facilities.  I doubt its any major impact on its footfall. You're not telling me that people were choosing to shop in Orchard Square, simply because it had a completely open public toilet.  

 

Supertram works continued beyond 1994. In fact, the Cathedral stop did not open until February 1995.  If you seriously think the problem with beggars in that area only developed in the past 13 years you are completely deluded.  Some of us actually worked down there and they were plenty of winos , panhandlers and rough sleepers in the Tony Blair days too.  

 

Yes, we will see how the new developments take and I for one am keen to get behind them instead of being a miserable git complaining about everything changing. Cities evolve.  That 'christmas shop' is in fact a well-known brand of homeware store which has been on the go for nearly 50 years and has branches all over Europe and places like Japan. It is not some gimmick. Monki (as most people with even half a brain know how to pronounce perfectly well) has also been on the go for nearly 20 years and part of an extremely large fashion corporation, again, not some gimmick retail the council have brought in  desperation. 

 

There are already big companies moving in.  Another corporate law firm is on the way, a construction company is occupying a Issac's House block all adding to the potential customer base along with the apartment residents making fertile ground for retailers and people with the kind of money to spend that could bring premium brands.  There is far more to it than just Pounds Park and kids eating sandwiches. You really haven't a clue. 

 

I'm not expecting you to be riding around in Ubers eating sushi but I do expect a so called 20- something to have the mindset of a 20-something, understand the basic concepts of modern life, embrace the world that they would have been brought up in instead of repelling against it.  Example like your covid conspiracies,  and your cash only nonsense when you're supposed to be running a business in 2023.  It makes no sense when you will have been popped out into the world at the time when debit cards were absolute mainstream and by the time you got to have your own bank account even contactless had started to be introduced.  

 

I work with lots of people on or around your alleged age and I hear nothing like the sort of things that come out of your mouth.  As I said before, you sound like a 75 year-old bitter pensioner most of the time. You bring up dated references that most of my 20 something colleagues won't even have a clue about let alone be pining for like some treasured memory.

[hackey lad]

34 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Yes, people do remember their childhood but you must have been extraordinary baby to have vivid memories under 5 years old of the intricacies of the Fargate shopping precinct.  You should offer yourself for medical science with your brain.

 

There are at least 8 different toilet facilities currently within Orchard Square. Those on legitimate reasons attending the businesses will have ample opportunities to go. There is even a disabled toilet at the back of the precinct for those with relevant medical needs.  The closure of the general public toilets was due to reasons of constant vandalism. The precinct has no obligation and given that it is turning more and more to food and drinking establishments, with  their own provision, it makes perfect commercial sense to get rid of the increasingly unnecessary and constantly abused facilities.  I doubt its any major impact on its footfall. You're not telling me that people were choosing to shop in Orchard Square, simply because it had a completely open public toilet.  

 

Supertram works continued beyond 1994. In fact, the Cathedral stop did not open until February 1995.  If you seriously think the problem with beggars in that area only developed in the past 13 years you are completely deluded.  Some of us actually worked down there and they were plenty of winos , panhandlers and rough sleepers in the Tony Blair days too.  

 

Yes, we will see how the new developments take and I for one am keen to get behind them instead of being a miserable git complaining about everything changing. Cities evolve.  That 'christmas shop' is in fact a well-known brand of homeware store which has been on the go for nearly 50 years and has branches all over Europe and places like Japan. It is not some gimmick. Monki (as most people with even half a brain know how to pronounce perfectly well) has also been on the go for nearly 20 years and part of an extremely large fashion corporation, again, not some gimmick retail the council have brought in  desperation. 

 

There are already big companies moving in.  Another corporate law firm is on the way, a construction company is occupying a Issac's House block all adding to the potential customer base along with the apartment residents making fertile ground for retailers and people with the kind of money to spend that could bring premium brands.  There is far more to it than just Pounds Park and kids eating sandwiches. You really haven't a clue. 

 

I'm not expecting you to be riding around in Ubers eating sushi but I do expect a so called 20- something to have the mindset of a 20-something, understand the basic concepts of modern life, embrace the world that they would have been brought up in instead of repelling against it.  Example like your covid conspiracies,  and your cash only nonsense when you're supposed to be running a business in 2023.  It makes no sense when you will have been popped out into the world at the time when debit cards were absolute mainstream and by the time you got to have your own bank account even contactless had started to be introduced.  

 

I work with lots of people on or around your alleged age and I hear nothing like the sort of things that come out of your mouth.  As I said before, you sound like a 75 year-old bitter pensioner most of the time. You bring up dated references that most of my 20 something colleagues won't even have a clue about let alone be pining for like some treasured memory.

Did you keenly get behind the Sevenstone promise ?

[ECCOnoob]

5 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

Did you keenly get behind the Sevenstone promise ?

The principles of it? Yes. The city was in desperate need of modernisation and redevelopment. It was lagging behind and for many years people have always complained and criticised that our shopping areas were too sprawled out.

 

It wasn't a "promise".  It was an idea, a proposal, a concept. All  things which can change or evolve or even sometimes fail.  Doesn't mean we stop trying.   Do you think when SevenStone was originally conceived in design they saw a great global recession coming. Did you think they planned for the developer to suddenly pull out or John Lewis to get cold feet and decide to stick where they were.

 

"stuff" happens all the time so the idea was changed. It was repurposed, new funding was found, new contractors were found and off we started again with Heart of the City.   An alternative project which I'm sure even your cynical mind has to agree has been successful.

 

The rotting eyesore Grosvenor House Hotel is gone replaced by modern office blocks which are occupied. The former decaying car park has now been changed into a park public space, play area and facilities, a load of empty wasteland has been turned into more premium office and high end apartments which are already selling, new leisure spaces, new hotels, new shops are all coming next year. The companies are moving as we speak.

 

So yeah you are damn right - I'm going to get behind something.

 

Silly old farts who refuse to embrace change will let the city stagnate. Every generation thinks there preference is best, but it's not all about them. The city has to keep evolving and looking for the next generation. Taste, trends, society, the way we shop, the way we work, what we want to do for leisure is always changing.

 

The latest developments on Fargate are part of that. It is clear that traditional retailing of the oldie department stores has been decline for some time. If there's less requirement for giant bricks and mortar chain stores its perfectly sensible for such buildings to be repurposed for the things that are in demand. Some of which right now are accommodation, flexible working space, leisure facilities and smaller more boutique retailers who don't want and aren't going to fill some old school 1950s six floored department store block.

 

I'm sure by the time I get to be a pensioner I will be grumbling about the changing world but like every generation I will have to accept it.