John Lewis Boss Calls For Abusing Shop Workers To Be An Offence

[Chekhov]

21 hours ago, HeHasRisen said:

No no no. Customers should have the right to go into Tesco and scream in the faces of staff. Apparently. 

Never seen that happen personally. One assumes if it did the customer would have some reason to do what they did, whether it was justified or not. Unless they had mental health problems of course, but then we'd get all the bleeding heart Lefties * saying oh well, that's OK then.......

 

* generally the same people who are advocating people that anyone so much as raising their voice or getting upset with anyone should be put in the local paper !

Hypocrites.

 

21 hours ago, Mister M said:

I was just listening to LBC, and they were discussing what shop workers were facing - One shop worker who said that he "expects to be abused every day" reported empty shopping bags chucked in his face and told by customers to "fill them". 

What a load of absolute cobblers ! ! !

I have worked in shop type work my entire life and cannot remember the last time any customer "abused" me, it must be years ago, maybe even many years ago. Nor do I remember the last time I ever saw it happening to anyone else.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Chekhov

[Chekhov]

21 hours ago, HeHasRisen said:

All perfectly fine according to some on here. The customer is always right, or such rollocks. 

I own a business dealing with the public all the time, and I can tell you that customers are right pretty much all the time.

 

21 hours ago, Mister M said:

No I do mean the bag literally chucked in his face.

Never seen that happen personally, but if someone threw a plastic bag in someone's face it's very bad manners but it's hardly assault is it ?

Or perhaps you think it is ?

Edited September 5, 2023 by Chekhov

[HeHasRisen]

7 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

I can tell you that customers are right pretty much all the time.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

Utter garbage. I've seen with my own eyes people argue the toss in a supermarket to then be proven wrong. Stuff like "it definitely said it cost 50p on the shelf edge, why have you charged me a quid?". Employees goes off to the relevant aisle and proves them wrong, usually because the customer is a numpty and has looked at the wrong thing. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by HeHasRisen

[Chekhov]

21 hours ago, Mister M said:

Earlier you were mocking the idea of "verbal violence" - this includes threats to staff, and staff's families such as their children.

Threats of violence, to them or their families can be just as worrying to people.

"Verbal violence" is a contradiction in terms, it cannot exist, except in the mind of some over sensitive type who should not be working with the public.

 

>>Threats of violence<<
 

That's different, it is unacceptable and, I think you'll find, already illegal.

 

21 hours ago, Mister M said:

There is a crime of verbal abuse apparently:

 

1.  These offences contrary to the Public Order Act 1986 relate to threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or display of visible representations, which:

Are likely to cause fear of, or to provoke, immediate violence: section 4;

Intentionally cause harassment, alarm or distress: section 4A; or

Are likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress (threatening or abusive words or behaviour only): section 5.

2.  It is a defence to section 4A and section 5 for the accused to demonstrate that their conduct was reasonable, which must be interpreted in accordance with the freedom of expression and other freedoms. If these freedoms are engaged, a justification for interference (by prosecution) with them must be convincingly established. A prosecution may only proceed if necessary and proportionate.

Verbal abuse and harassment in public | The Crown Prosecution Service (cps.gov.uk)

 

>>likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress<<

 

If that's the law then the law is an ass.

We cannot, nor should we have to, go though our lives acting like everyone is the most over sensitive wazzock on the planet. Personal responsibility : if you're over sensitive don't get a job dealing with the public. Don't expect the world to bend to your particular mental health issues.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Chekhov

[Chekhov]

30 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

>>Mister M said:
I was just listening to LBC, and they were discussing what shop workers were facing - One shop worker who said that he "expects to be abused every day" reported empty shopping bags chucked in his face and told by customers to "fill them".<<

 

What a load of absolute cobblers ! ! !

I have worked in shop type work my entire life and cannot remember the last time any customer "abused" me, it must be years ago, maybe even many years ago. Nor do I remember the last time I ever saw it happening to anyone else.

I just asked my work colleague (he's worked here for about 9 years) when he was last "abused" by a customer and he could not remember. He doesn't think he ever has been, in 9 years....

[Mister M]

56 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

What a load of absolute cobblers ! ! !

I have worked in shop type work my entire life and cannot remember the last time any customer "abused" me, it must be years ago, maybe even many years ago. Nor do I remember the last time I ever saw it happening to anyone else.

I should mention that this was a conversation on a radio that I heard, it doesn't involve me.

I have to say, as he was talking about his experiences of work his tone sounded flat, almost despairing even. So it wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

On Youtube there is CCTV footage from shops, of just what behaviour shop workers / owners have to put up with.

Now you can call it cobblers, your prerogative. I believe the people who I heard on the radio yesterday.

Of course, just because you've never had the experience they've had, doesn't mean they're talking cobblers, it just means their experiences are different to yours. 

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

Never seen that happen personally. One assumes if it did the customer would have some reason to do what they did, whether it was justified or not. Unless they had mental health problems of course, but then we'd get all the bleeding heart Lefties * saying oh well, that's OK then.......

 

 

 

I don't excuse that kind of behaviour because someone has mental health difficulties. 

In fact the people I've seen get angry, (not in shops but on public transport), don't appear to have mental health difficulties, but are unwilling to control their emotion, and think their entitled to treat people like rubbish.

That's not acceptable. I wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of that.

[Mister M]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

1 - Who defines "treating people like rubbish", or indeed "abusive" ?

The agencies of the criminal justice system - police, CPS, courts etc.

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

2 - I personally cannot remember the last time I saw any shop worker (or any worker) "being treated like rubbish", much less assaulted or threatened.

Pleased for you. 

But just because you haven't seen it happen, doesn't mean to say it doesn't happen.

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

 

>>all over the local newspapers<<

 

One assumes you would also say they would need the same sort of proof as a police prosecution to do that, and with the same burden of guilt and presumption of innocence. Plus, of course, an objective definition of "abuse".

Thus, I think you'll find, not many cases of "abuse" would make it into the paper, local or otherwise.

Absolutely. 

I'm not in favour of anyone who is innocent being branded as guilty.

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

Never seen that happen personally, but if someone threw a plastic bag in someone's face it's very bad manners but it's hardly assault is it ?

Or perhaps you think it is ?

I wouldn't have called it assault, but if I was the shop worker and someone did that to me, I wouldn't damned well fill their bag or serve them, I'd tell them to get ****ed, and call them what they are, a vile scrubber.

[HeHasRisen]

I also once had someone in front of me at Tesco argue the toss with the operator that a leg of lamb should be costing him £7 as that's what it said on the label. It was explained to him that it was £7 per kilo yet he was having none of it. 

 

Dont think that customer was right either.... 

Edited September 5, 2023 by HeHasRisen

[Mister M]

2 hours ago, Chekhov said:

>>likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress<<

 

If that's the law then the law is an ass.

We cannot, nor should we have to, go though our lives acting like everyone is the most over sensitive wazzock on the planet. Personal responsibility : if you're over sensitive don't get a job dealing with the public. Don't expect the world to bend to your particular mental health issues.

I think there are certain norms of behaviour which are expected of everyone*.

 

One of those norms is civility. It is completely unacceptable for people to behave in a rude, aggressive and entitled manner. That's a basic.

I don't think it's right to shift the blame onto everyone else, that it's people's responsibility to put up with rudeness, aggression and entitled behaviour of a minority. I'm not an 'over sensitive wazzock' because I don't like being treated like crap, and I don't like seeing other being treated like crap either. Including you.

It is people's responsibility not to behave like that. It is not people's responsibility to put up with it. And by and large, people don't. Most people I meet are courteous and well behaved.

If people cannot / will not behave with civility then they're going to have a very difficult passage through life. 

Sure people have off days of course they do. But that's not what we're talking about.

 

* I exclude children from those expectations for the obvious reason that they're still learning about basic social skills.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Mister M

[Chekhov]

1 hour ago, Mister M said:

>>Chekhov said:
What a load of absolute cobblers ! ! !

I have worked in shop type work my entire life and cannot remember the last time any customer "abused" me, it must be years ago, maybe even many years ago. Nor do I remember the last time I ever saw it happening to anyone else.<<

 

I should mention that this was a conversation on a radio that I heard, it doesn't involve me.

I have to say, as he was talking about his experiences of work his tone sounded flat, almost despairing even. So it wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

On Youtube there is CCTV footage from shops, of just what behaviour shop workers / owners have to put up with.

Now you can call it cobblers, your prerogative. I believe the people who I heard on the radio yesterday.

Of course, just because you've never had the experience they've had, doesn't mean they're talking cobblers, it just means their experiences are different to yours. 

The shop worker(s) says they "expect to be "abused" every day ? 

How can that be anything but cobblers if it's many years since I was abused (I cannot remember when in fact) and my colleague cannot either, in 9 years.

Some of it could be they may work in a particularly rough area, but it's just as likely they have  a very low threshold of what they consider "abuse", and/or their "inter personal skills" and/or "customer service skills" may need a bit  of work ?

2 hours ago, Mister M said:

don't appear to have mental health difficulties, but are unwilling to control their emotion,

Where does one stop and the other start ?

Once you get into this subjective area of human behaviour you are into a mine field.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Chekhov