Al Bundy Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 12 minutes ago, leviathan13 said: On my mobile so difficult to respond to all the points, but here's my answer to some of the comments: I do not 'hate' trans people. I am able to separate the person from the ideology, like with religion. For the most part, i would respect a person's wish to be called whatever (within some level of reason) despite how hard it is. Example is when we had a trans person working with us (told this story before... someone might listen this time) - they were male and were fluid with a leaning towards actually transitioning to become female. We had a good relationship having a few things in common and a similar sense of humour. It wasn't even an issue when they came out with us in town one evening dressed as a woman. However, when dressed more... unisex... it was difficult not to use male descriptors when not consciously thinking about it. They had a deeper voice and i called them 'dude' on occasion as i do when speaking to males. Why did i not have a problem with them? Because they didn't have a problem with me. They didn't go to my manager when i 'misgendered them' and quite clearly understood that as difficult as the situation was for them, it was difficult for others as we entered a new world. Respect breeds respect. The 'problem' i have is with being forced to suspend reality for fear of causing offense and, worse, potentially losing my job or, even worse, being arrested for 'hate speech' simply for believing in biological sex and that those with gender issues have some level of mental health issue. Do i think those people should be harmed? Hell no!!! Everyone should be able to go through life without fear of physical harm and if i saw a trans person suffering abuse or worse in the street, i would defend them because they are a human being. Part of the problem i have is that you are not allowed to question it because you are classed as phobic, a bigot and a TERF. No one is saying they can't participate in sport - they just shouldn't be allowed biological men to compete against women in most sports where strength and speed are key. And by that same token, allowing fully grown men to be undressing infront of young girls. Any man who doesn't see a problem with that i would be questioning their mentality. Let trans people have their own categories/events/spaces so they can compete against each other. I would argue that most people aren't using 'hate speech', they are simply just trying to get their heads round a complex situation where, on the surface, they are being expected to change their entire belief system and accept a new reality. Understanding needs to be shown on both sides but when one side simply shouts the other down with name calling, then no wonder we can't reconcile the situation. Us on one side are expected to let go of everything we've ever understood, all we're asking is for the other to understand our views without sticking their fingers in their ears and stamping their feet. An excellent post, full of common sense and reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackey lad Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 minute ago, leviathan13 said: TERF = Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist Basically, a woman who questions biological men beimg allowed in women's spaces So , a real woman , like mi Mam . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan13 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 Just now, Irene Swaine said: I am having technical issues, so can't isolate the part of your post that I want to quote. No one should force you to change your belief systems. That would by tyrannical and barbaric. I don't think anyone really wants the "thought police" to become a reality. But you do - because you want people to be punished for having the 'wrong' opinions and views. The left keep confusing questioning and concern with hate speech, and that's why people are losing jobs and being 'cancelled' in colleges/universities. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irene Swaine Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, leviathan13 said: TERF = Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist Basically, a woman who questions biological men beimg allowed in women's spaces It's not just about that though, if they stuck to their concerns around safety and addressed trans women respectfully, in a civilised manner, I can't see many people having a problem with them. But they don't keep it to the subject of toilets, they mock, they insult and degrade, they deliberately misgender to cause upset, it is more about hate and nastiness than concern for personal safety. 3 minutes ago, leviathan13 said: But you do - because you want people to be punished for having the 'wrong' opinions and views. The left keep confusing questioning and concern with hate speech, and that's why people are losing jobs and being 'cancelled' in colleges/universities. I don't care what your opinions are. I do care if you don't address someone respectfully. If your name was Charles and I kept calling you Martin, on purpose, that would be disrespectful. I am not one of "the left" or "the right", both sides wanted to take away our freedom in the scamdemic. I am a free thinker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, hackey lad said: So , a real woman , like mi Mam . It's used as a term of abuse for men as well as women. Speak out about how lesbians are same-sex attracted women - or on any of the other points I made above - and you'll likely be called a terf, amongst other things, at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan13 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Irene Swaine said: It's not just about that though, if they stuck to their concerns around safety and addressed trans women respectfully, in a civilised manner, I can't see many people having a problem with them. But they don't keep it to the subject of toilets, they mock, they insult and degrade, they deliberately misgender to cause upset, it is more about hate and nastiness than concern for personal safety. I don't care what your opinions are. I do care if you don't address someone respectfully. If your name was Charles and I kept calling you Martin, on purpose, that would be disrespectful. I am not one of "the left" or "the right", both sides wanted to take away our freedom in the scamdemic. I am a free thinker. Sometimes i wonder if you're just a spoof account... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollingJ Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 minute ago, leviathan13 said: Sometimes i wonder if you're just a spoof account... No, just a very confused individual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irene Swaine Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, leviathan13 said: Sometimes i wonder if you're just a spoof account... Is my opinion too much for you to handle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan13 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 Just now, Irene Swaine said: Is my opinion too much for you to handle? It's the fact that all mud you're slinging one way is precisely the reason why we're struggling to take the movement seriously, and you seem to be completely unaware of your own hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irene Swaine Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, RollingJ said: No, just a very confused individual. I notice you choose to question my frame of mind - I assume because my argument is too strong to question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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