Do Sheffield City Council Have Something Against Roundabouts ?

[Chekhov]

25 minutes ago, MJ01 said:

Our thoughts are with the unfortunate people who were in the vehicle with you

Troll finder :  
"to antagonise (others) online by deliberately posting inflammatory, irrelevant, or offensive comments or other disruptive content"
Antagonistic ?  Obviously
Inflammatory ?  Undoubtedly
Irrelevant ?  Absolutely
Offensive ?  I think so
Disruptive ?  The whole point of your post

 

Five out of five, well done.

[Chekhov]

OK it's not just Sheffield who seem to be anti roundabout, because if there's one junction that is absolutely crying out to be a roundabout it's the junction near between the B6089 Stubbin Rd (Greasborough to Wombwell) and Hoober Lane (to Swinton).

Quite apart from awful the congestion it's plain dangerous when going straight on (a dog leg) or turning right.

 

Does anyone know why that junction was not made a roundabout when it was "upgraded" ? After all it's not as if there is a shortage of room there.

 

There's even a French video of this junction !

https://fr.dreamstime.com/jonction-plus-dangereuse-yorkshire-packman-wentworth-road-rotherham-septembre-du-junction-à-connu-grand-nombre-video158389392

 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Chekhov

[Planner1]

33 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

OK it's not just Sheffield who seem to be anti roundabout, because if there's one junction that is absolutely crying out to be a roundabout it's the junction near between the B6089 Stubbin Rd (Greasborough to Wombwell) and Hoober Lane (to Swinton).

Quite apart from awful the congestion it's plain dangerous when going straight on (a dog leg) or turning right.

No one is “anti roundabout”.

 

Roads and junctions are designed in accordance with national design guidance and standards issued by the government.

 

The most appropriate design for the location is arrived at taking into account the site characteristics and current and forecast traffic flows as well as the government guidance. 
 

Roundabouts take up quite a lot of space and aren’t always feasible.
 

All councils work that way. The engineers who design the schemes ( who are often private sector consulting engineers) look into the available options and come up with the most practical and cost effective solution, whether it be a roundabout or standard junction. There’s no preference or direction against roundabouts.

[Chekhov]

2 hours ago, Planner1 said:

No one is “anti roundabout”.

 

Roads and junctions are designed in accordance with national design guidance and standards issued by the government.

 

The most appropriate design for the location is arrived at taking into account the site characteristics and current and forecast traffic flows as well as the government guidance. 
 

Roundabouts take up quite a lot of space and aren’t always feasible.
 

All councils work that way. The engineers who design the schemes ( who are often private sector consulting engineers) look into the available options and come up with the most practical and cost effective solution, whether it be a roundabout or standard junction. There’s no preference or direction against roundabouts.

Well there is no lack of room at the Hoober Lane junction, and, examination of Google  Earth shows how they have deliberately slewed Wentworth Rd to force cars (going straight across) to slow down. A roundabout would have been a better solution all round.....

 

>>There’s no preference or direction against roundabouts.<<

 

That's not entirely true though is it ?

I thought your point "up thread" was that roundabouts were not cycle friendly and, in some ways, they are less pedestrian friendly too (even if there are far less cyclists and pedestrians using a particular junction than road vehicles....).

Therefore councils which are more pro car will be more in favour of roundabouts, councils more anti car will be less keen. Surely ?

Edited November 21, 2023 by Chekhov

[Bargepole23]

44 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Well there is no lack of room at the Hoober Lane junction, and, examination of Google  Earth shows how they have deliberately slewed Wentworth Rd to force cars (going straight across) to slow down. A roundabout would have been a better solution all round.....

 

>>There’s no preference or direction against roundabouts.<<

 

That's not entirely true though is it ?

I thought your point "up thread" was that roundabouts were not cycle friendly and, in some ways, they are less pedestrian friendly too (even if there are far less cyclists and pedestrians using a particular junction than road vehicles....).

Therefore councils which are more pro car will be more in favour of roundabouts, councils more anti car will be less keen. Surely ?

Based on what, your qualifications in armchair highway engineering?

 

Provide a link to any cost-benefit analysis you have carried out, or any other studies, or anything more than just casual observation.

[Planner1]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

Well there is no lack of room at the Hoober Lane junction, and, examination of Google  Earth shows how they have deliberately slewed Wentworth Rd to force cars (going straight across) to slow down. A roundabout would have been a better solution all round.....

 

>>There’s no preference or direction against roundabouts.<<

 

That's not entirely true though is it ?

I thought your point "up thread" was that roundabouts were not cycle friendly and, in some ways, they are less pedestrian friendly too (even if there are far less cyclists and pedestrians using a particular junction than road vehicles....).

Therefore councils which are more pro car will be more in favour of roundabouts, councils more anti car will be less keen. Surely ?

They have realigned one leg of a crossroads, which suggests to me it was maybe a safety scheme, perhaps a problem which involved vehicles approaching from Wentworth Rd or perhaps they needed to separate out the turning movements on Stubbin Rd. Hard to tell without the background info. Looks like it was done 9 years ago.

 

Whatever it was, realigning one leg of a junction costs way less than installing a roundabout.

 

Other than schemes which address safety issues and very minor schemes, major transport schemes are generally funded through government funding programmes ( usually via the combined authority) which will have differing objectives and requirements. A scheme has to meet the requirements or it doesn’t get put into the funding bid ( the funding streams are usually competitive processes), never mind get built.

 

Recent government funding streams have tended to focus on measures to increase the numbers of people walking and cycling. A scheme purely to improve capacity of a junction would probably not qualify.

 

There are pluses and minuses for any type of junction configuration. Engineers follow an analytical approach. They establish and quantify the problem. Then identify all the ways in which they could address it. Then they go through a process of analysis which usually involves scoring each option against multiple criteria, ( based on critical success factors) to form firstly a long list of options then a short list and eventually a preferred option. All this gets put into a business case in which the promoter ( the local authority) follows a process set by Department for Transport and HM Treasury to set out the strategic fit of the scheme, quantify the benefits, set out how it will be procured, what it will cost and how they intend to deliver it ( The five cases - strategic, economic, commercial, financial, management).  Then people like me appraise the business case and make recommendations to decision makers ( ultimately councillors) on whether the business case is sound.

 

Its a lengthy and expensive process and all highway schemes of any size will go through it.

 

The nature of the solution is usually down to the best way to deal with the identified problem and how deliverable it is within the funding available. In my experience, no councils are biased against roundabouts. They just follow the process and select the best solution for the problem, based on the information available and the current design standards.

 

As I’ve mentioned before, roundabouts take up more land than normal junctions. That will be a factor in cost and risk. Land costs money and if the council don’t own the necessary land, acquiring it can be costly, difficult and take a long time. Therefore roundabouts are often a higher cost option than a normal junction and the risks associated with obtaining the land can affect deliverability. Government funding streams are often time limited, so you have to spend the money by a fixed date, which is often only a few short years away, which leads scheme promoters to take the quicker and less risky option.

[bassett one]

take meadowhead what a mess,and although i use st james shopping like thousands of others ,its only added to the traffic

[Longcol]

On 21/11/2023 at 19:11, bassett one said:

take meadowhead what a mess,and although i use st james shopping like thousands of others ,its only added to the traffic

Who'd have thought a mainish road into the city with a smallish shopping centre close by would be owt but busyish.

 

Hardly Penistone Road.

[hackey lad]

4 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Who'd have thought a mainish road into the city with a smallish shopping centre close by would be owt but busyish.

 

Hardly Penistone Road.

Someone’s got a question for you on the Beggars thread . 

[Longcol]

20 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

Someone’s got a question for you on the Beggars thread . 

Foxy begging for attention again?