Nurse Lucy Letby Has Been Found Guilty Of Murdering Seven Newborn Babies,

[redruby]

I agree the the management should face severe penalties for this.  They did not commit the actual murders but when faced with evidence they chose to not to involve police and more babies sadly died as a result.  
It does appear that the higher up the rankings managers go the less accountable their actions are.  These people should not be allowed to retire on a big fat pension or walk into another management role in the NHS.

Edited August 19, 2023 by redruby

[cressida]

You mean they should be more hands on as responsibility and accountability becomes lax the more managers up the ladder so to speak) there are?

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, cressida said:

You mean they should be more hands on as responsibility and accountability becomes lax the more managers up the ladder so to speak) there are?

In my opinion,  a lot less managers and a lot more doctors, nurses and care assistants,  is what the NHS needs.

Matrons and sisters ran things far more efficiently and without the help of computers.

 

[hauxwell]

The Government has ordered an inquiry after Letby was found guilty. It will be interesting to hear why senior management ignored the concerns of the people who raised them about Letby. I hope the inquiry isn’t held behind closed doors and senior managers who did nothing to stop the nurse are forced to do the walk of shame when they attend the inquiry, with the media stood outside with cameras so we can all see what they look like.  
 

 

[Axe]

9 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

I very much agree with that.  The management are equally guilty as the nurse but we never see heads roll at the top.

It is wrong to say the management are equally guilty as the nurse because they did not commit the murders.  

 

What is worrying is that the nurse only got caught because there were so many murders and attempted murders when she was on duty.  One evil nurse or doctor is unlikely to get caught if they just commit one murder.  

[Guest ThaBoom]

14 hours ago, Axe said:

She will most likely end up in Rampton with Beverley Allitt. 

One wonders if Letby saw Allit as some kind of 'hero' and followed her path.

[Axe]

1 hour ago, ThaBoom said:

One wonders if Letby saw Allit as some kind of 'hero' and followed her path.

An expert has laid bare the chilling link between Lucy Letby's crimes and the Beverley Allitt case. Allitt, known as the angel of death, killed four children.

Professor Mike Berry, of Liverpool’s John Moores University, said: “Both nurses worked with babies, although Allitt did also kill an 11 year old boy. Neither woman was involved in a meaningful, emotionally satisfying relationship at the time, and both were seeking attention. Both denied their responsibility for the deaths and may never do so.

 

“Like Allitt, Letby stole hospital notes relating to her victims and they both showed an over-attachment to the babies, as shown by post death behaviour towards the parents. And in both cases the killings often happened at night or over the weekend.” He continued: “Why did they do it? Possibly it is to be the centre of attention or to attract the attention of a particular person. But it may be that they are playing the role of an ‘Angel of Death’, exerting a ’god-like’ power and control over life.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/uk-news/psychologist-issues-chilling-verdict-lucy-27552198

 

[El Cid]

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

In my opinion,  a lot less managers and a lot more doctors, nurses and care assistants,  is what the NHS needs.

Matrons and sisters ran things far more efficiently and without the help of computers.

 

When seemed to happen was the consultants were emailing their  managers and the managers were just emailing back. Face to face communication is much better.

[ECCOnoob]

1 hour ago, El Cid said:

When seemed to happen was the consultants were emailing their  managers and the managers were just emailing back. Face to face communication is much better.

I don't know why people think it was sooo good back in the black and white days either.  

 

Just because they didn't have computers or email didn't automatically mean more face to face discussions.  Doctors and Consultants used to dictate their memos and briefings and charts and notes off to their secretaries or huge typing pools to then be transcribed and sent back to be checked and amended by the author who sent it back secretary to retype it then send back to the author to sign off then  passed onto a messenger who delivered it five doors down the corridor to the recipient whose own secretary would eventually open it and leave it waiting in file for the recipient to review once they got back to their desk then said recipient would prepare a response by dictating to their secretary....  round and round the process went  again. 

 

Let's not pretend even back in the days of sternly matrons running their departments with an iron fist there were not some just as huge scandals and mistakes and cover-ups  throughout the 60s, 70s and 80s. 

 

I am not saying that the management in this present case aren't guilty of something and that will no doubt come out in all the investigations and enquiries. But lets not also forget the circumstances we are dealing with here. The culprit is a nurse - thus in their profession patients die. It is part of the course.   

 

Distressing as it is, in a large hospital environment, a death in itself would not be some instant red flag of murder. Even with a pattern of death emerging, there are many stages beforehand which would need to be considered before anyone would jump to red flags of criminal intent by the clinician or nurse or doctor. A process made even more difficult for management if, as appears to have happened in this case, they said culprit has been manipulating and falsifying the records.   

 

There could be very legitimate reasons why management wouldn't be jumping in with heavy allegations like murder against their employee. One obvious one is that the unions would be screaming the house down if they did.  We have already seen what happens if a hospital management try to bring in some extra layer of compliance checks or start to get a bit more heavy-handed with their checking and monitoring of what those precious doctors and nurses are doing. 

 

How many times do we see on here. Hot air being blown about silly health and safety rules or overbearing form filling or whines about doctors and nursing spending too much time jumping through compliance hoops when they should be getting on with the job or overbearing management interfering.....     

 

People often throw out the line, there should be more clinical stuff and less pen pushers but according to the study by the Kings Fund, management staff numbers are actually in decline whereas nursing staff are reportedly increased by 23% in the past 10 years.

 

Its really not as simple as people think.  Everyone always defaults to blaming management and the fat cats in the suits, but the fact is this nurse has been through an entire court process and found guilty by a jury of her peers. This was not some manipulated internal enquiry with bias and management cover up. This was a court of law where all evidence has been heard and an independent decision made that she was guilty of her crimes.  

 

Management incompetence may well be a partial factor in what happened, but this nurse wasn't Florence Nightingale having a bad day or suffering from overworking by her slave driving management.  She was a conscious murderer and now convicted criminal.

Edited August 19, 2023 by ECCOnoob

[Guest]

1 hour ago, El Cid said:

When seemed to happen was the consultants were emailing their  managers and the managers were just emailing back. Face to face communication is much better.

As I said,  it seemed to run far better without the aid of computers, ward managers, wing managers etc.