Nurse Lucy Letby Has Been Found Guilty Of Murdering Seven Newborn Babies,

[Al Bundy]

3 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Do you not know what a rambler is ?                That was the correct description whether I agree with his views or not.

Maybe you would like to waste your day talking to him in my place   -   if you would,  then feel free.  It would give you a break from The Guardian.

I have plenty of attention span for posters who I think,  are worthy of attention. 

You're quite welcome to support the views of any poster you wish,  but let me decide for myself who the best posters are

Deary you indeed.

Go to bed.

[redruby]

6 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

I don't know why people think it was sooo good back in the black and white days either.  

 

Just because they didn't have computers or email didn't automatically mean more face to face discussions.  Doctors and Consultants used to dictate their memos and briefings and charts and notes off to their secretaries or huge typing pools to then be transcribed and sent back to be checked and amended by the author who sent it back secretary to retype it then send back to the author to sign off then  passed onto a messenger who delivered it five doors down the corridor to the recipient whose own secretary would eventually open it and leave it waiting in file for the recipient to review once they got back to their desk then said recipient would prepare a response by dictating to their secretary....  round and round the process went  again. 

 

Let's not pretend even back in the days of sternly matrons running their departments with an iron fist there were not some just as huge scandals and mistakes and cover-ups  throughout the 60s, 70s and 80s. 

 

I am not saying that the management in this present case aren't guilty of something and that will no doubt come out in all the investigations and enquiries. But lets not also forget the circumstances we are dealing with here. The culprit is a nurse - thus in their profession patients die. It is part of the course.   

 

Distressing as it is, in a large hospital environment, a death in itself would not be some instant red flag of murder. Even with a pattern of death emerging, there are many stages beforehand which would need to be considered before anyone would jump to red flags of criminal intent by the clinician or nurse or doctor. A process made even more difficult for management if, as appears to have happened in this case, they said culprit has been manipulating and falsifying the records.   

 

There could be very legitimate reasons why management wouldn't be jumping in with heavy allegations like murder against their employee. One obvious one is that the unions would be screaming the house down if they did.  We have already seen what happens if a hospital management try to bring in some extra layer of compliance checks or start to get a bit more heavy-handed with their checking and monitoring of what those precious doctors and nurses are doing. 

 

How many times do we see on here. Hot air being blown about silly health and safety rules or overbearing form filling or whines about doctors and nursing spending too much time jumping through compliance hoops when they should be getting on with the job or overbearing management interfering.....     

 

People often throw out the line, there should be more clinical stuff and less pen pushers but according to the study by the Kings Fund, management staff numbers are actually in decline whereas nursing staff are reportedly increased by 23% in the past 10 years.

 

Its really not as simple as people think.  Everyone always defaults to blaming management and the fat cats in the suits, but the fact is this nurse has been through an entire court process and found guilty by a jury of her peers. This was not some manipulated internal enquiry with bias and management cover up. This was a court of law where all evidence has been heard and an independent decision made that she was guilty of her crimes.  

 

Management incompetence may well be a partial factor in what happened, but this nurse wasn't Florence Nightingale having a bad day or suffering from overworking by her slave driving management.  She was a conscious murderer and now convicted criminal.

Well, I for one don’t think cover ups and scandals didn’t happen in the ‘good old days’.  The difference is then it would have been senior doctors covering up rather than senior managers.  And again, they would have largely got away with it. 
Indeed it was a nurse that committed murder, but serious red flags were raised and not acted upon appropriately by management and more murders than happened subsequently.  That is where the blame on management falls.  Not on the first murders / the fact they happened in the first place, but that it was allowed to continue over a year.  Remember 3 babies sadly died for no obvious reason within the space of a month.  The same number that normally died in a whole year.

[hackey lad]

4 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Do you not know what a rambler is ?                That was the correct description whether I agree with his views or not.

Maybe you would like to waste your day talking to him in my place   -   if you would,  then feel free.  It would give you a break from The Guardian.

I have plenty of attention span for posters who I think,  are worthy of attention. 

You're quite welcome to support the views of any poster you wish,  but let me decide for myself who the best posters are

Deary you indeed.

Oreight Smiler .

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Al Bundy said:

Go to bed.

Is that the most illuminating comment you can make ? 

That intellect of yours knows no bounds but will need at least another ten years of guardian reading to get you to 15 year old status.

Knowing that your views are always directly opposite to mine,   encourages me that my view was correct in the first place.

 

[hackey lad]

Just now, Organgrinder said:

Is that the most illuminating comment you can make ? 

That intellect of yours knows no bounds but will need at least another ten years of guardian reading to get you to 15 year old status.

Knowing that your views are always directly opposite to mine,   encourages me that my view was correct in the first place.

 

I've got you down as a Max Wall lookalike .

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Mister M said:

Amongst other evidence that was collated, it was reported that police found evidence of notes she'd written saying what an evil person she thought she was, and "I did this".

 

 

Quite true.  Some of those notes have actually been shown on TV because I've seen them myself.

[Al Bundy]

26 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Is that the most illuminating comment you can make ? 

That intellect of yours knows no bounds but will need at least another ten years of guardian reading to get you to 15 year old status.

Knowing that your views are always directly opposite to mine,   encourages me that my view was correct in the first place.

 

👍

[foxydebs]

18 hours ago, Anna B said:

Much of the evidence was circumstantial. The jury was undecided on most of the 'guilty' verdicts. Therefore still some doubt in their minds even after hearing all the evidence. 

For a nurse to have her hands in an incubator delivering medication is not that unusual (possibly via 'sleeves.')

 

You say there was an eye witness who saw her inject the baby with air.  That is the only incontrovertible evidence I've heard in this case. But I always thought air bubbles in the blood was almost impossible to prove. (Perhaps Patricia can help us with that.)

Therefore how was it proved and what is your source?  Genuine request. I'm interested in the evidence. Did the witness see the needle in her hand? If so were there any traces of a substance in the tube? Was it ever tested? Is it her word against another?

 

What is the purpose of the enquiry? 

 

 

This.

Air embolism can be tested on a post mortem ct test

[Axe]

The main topic of discussion this morning is the former nurse found guilty of the murders will not be attending court to hear her sentence being given.  The coward who was found guilty of murdering the Liverpool schoolgirl also did not attend his sentence.  It is only a recent occurrence that we hear about guilty criminals being allowed not to attend court to hear their sentence. 

[hauxwell]

There was something on the news that government was going to change the law to make it compulsory for people to attend court when they are being sentenced, and so they should.