Sunak : Nett Zero But In A 'More Proportionate' Way

[Pyrotequila]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

How is that trolling ?

Tell me, how many people who need a car but cannot afford an electric car, would want only electric cars to be allowed on the roads ?

This is the inescapable fact.

At the moment anyone can go and buy a car for less that £1K which will reasonably reliably get them to Penzance or John O'Groats for that matter, or even both.

Even if they get the infrastructure to allow adequate recharging, do you genuinely believe once cars all have to be electric that poorer people will be able to go a buy a reliable car for a grand ?

Really ? 

My comment was aimed at rogets post, not yours, the man is a moron 👍

Edited September 20, 2023 by Pyrotequila

[Jack Grey]

Its about time.

 

They should stop all green taxes until the economy strengthens and delay net zero targets etc 

 

The rest of the world is doing what they need to for their citizens so we should to

 

I'm sick of leading by example

 

Let someone else do it for a change 

[pfifes]

5 hours ago, master jedi said:

As someone who hasn't got 15 grand for a heat pump or another few grand for an electric car and another headache about not having a drive to charge it on  , im delighted to hear this news. Im all for cleaner air in principle but not at the pace and price that  it costs at the moment , i along with many other normal working people just cant afford it, and before someone mentions walking cycling or catching a bus , i do all of that as well , but i like to drive , my car has taken me to many places in a short amount of time that no bus or cycle bike or walking could even do.    

I think this speaks for very many people.

[hackey lad]

54 minutes ago, Pyrotequila said:

My comment was aimed at rogets post, not yours, the man is a moron 👍

rogets is a comedian nothing more . 

14 minutes ago, Jack Grey said:

Its about time.

 

They should stop all green taxes until the economy strengthens and delay net zero targets etc 

 

The rest of the world is doing what they need to for their citizens so we should to

 

I'm sick of leading by example

 

Let someone else do it for a change 

Agreed . Far worse polluters than us on this planet .

[Mister Gee]

29 minutes ago, Jack Grey said:

Its about time.

 

They should stop all green taxes until the economy strengthens and delay net zero targets etc 

 

The rest of the world is doing what they need to for their citizens so we should to

 

I'm sick of leading by example

 

Let someone else do it for a change 

By example of what?

[Chekhov]

3 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Chekhov has a habit of replying,  not to what you wrote,  but to what he's decided you think.

Many a time have I had that debate and been misquoted whilst he tells me what I think and answers that instead.

I don't waste my time arguing with him any more

And then I asked you for an example and you decline to answer......

 

3 hours ago, El Cid said:

Yes its all a con, did the Government rejoice when world fuel and energy prices skyrocketed!

Oh absolutely they did. They could then blame Russia for what they desperately wanted to do themselves.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Chekhov

[Prettytom]

34 minutes ago, Mister Gee said:

By example of what?

He’ll answer you later.

 

Jack is currently fully engaged in his swim from “Italy” to “Florida”

 

Keeps the old carbon footprint down you see 

[Chekhov]

3 hours ago, Prettytom said:

How did you get from my statement, to your “translation”? They are poles apart.

If English isn’t your first language, let me know and I’ll cut you a bit of slack.

Otherwise, try reading what I wrote and think about it a bit.

And stop making stuff up on behalf of others. It is a ridiculously childish form of debate.

You're not very good at specifics are you ?

 

>Prettytom said: Reducing it [attempts to reach Nett Zero] to yet another pawn in their game of culture war chess, really isn’t good enough.<

 

>>Chekhov said: Translation : the people may not want it but give it to them anyway, "we know best, it's for their own good".

Democracy is "flexible", well it is to authoritarians.<<

 

I tell you what I'll ask you again,

If my translation (that the people should not be given a chance to vote against "Nett Zero") is wrong, what did you actually mean then ?

 

 

[Prettytom]

6 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

You're not very good at specifics are you ?

 

>Prettytom said: Reducing it [attempts to reach Nett Zero] to yet another pawn in their game of culture war chess, really isn’t good enough.<

 

>>Chekhov said: Translation : the people may not want it but give it to them anyway, "we know best, it's for their own good".

Democracy is "flexible", well it is to authoritarians.<<

 

I tell you what I'll ask you again,

If my translation (that the people should not be given a chance to vote against "Nett Zero") is wrong, what did you actually mean then ?

 

 

I’ll answer again.

 

I meant exactly what I said.

 

If your brain sees something different, please keep it to yourself.  I don’t see why I should rebut something that you’ve invented.
 

And stop making stuff up about other people’s opinions.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Prettytom

[Chekhov]

6 hours ago, master jedi said:

As someone who hasn't got 15 grand for a heat pump or another few grand for an electric car and another headache about not having a drive to charge it on  , im delighted to hear this news. Im all for cleaner air in principle but not at the pace and price that  it costs at the moment , i along with many other normal working people just cant afford it, and before someone mentions walking cycling or catching a bus , i do all of that as well , but i like to drive , my car has taken me to many places in a short amount of time that no bus or cycle bike or walking could even do.    

I agree completely, though your facts are, if anything, an underestimation of the Nett Zero fantasy.

 

Heat pumps don't actually work that well, the radiators don't get that hot so they must be huge (many house are too small for the size of the rads required ! ) and the insulation and draught proofing must be 100%. Which, BTW, can lead to ventilation problems and dampness.

 

An electric car will cost you a lot more than "a few grand".....

 

6 hours ago, altus said:

Whilst it's true that "politicians in governments of all stripes have not been honest about costs and trade-offs", the costs and trade-offs have always been 'the longer we leave it the bigger the costs and the bigger the trade-offs will be'. The easy way out they've taken is to not do it then, when it would have been cheaper and we could have done it over a long time, but leave it to others to do later - so we are left with needing to do it expensively and in a hurry. Sunak is just another PM trying to avoid being the one who does something about it.

In your view.

 

1 - I do not believe the effect on the world, certainly on humans, will be as bad as is being suggested. Historically the climate has been both far hotter and also far colder than it is now. Humans are the most adaptable creatures ever to have walked the earth.

 

2 - There is no guarantee that changing our lives forever, at massive cost, will prevent it anyway. What we do is almost irrelevant whilst China, India and many other countries aren't interested. And who can blame them, if I were a poor country I would not be countenancing keeping my population in poverty just so we could try and head off climate change, and there is no way this country should to be paying them the many Trillions necessary to subsidise them to do so. That would never fly if if put to a referendum in this country, no way.

 

3 - Mitigating climate change will be much cheaper than trying (very possibly unsuccessfully) to prevent it, certainly in this country. And eif the population of this country would rather spend Billions on mitigation rather than Trillions on attempting to restrict Global Warming (which certainly will not work if China and India aren't on board) then in a democracy, they should be given that choice.

Or do we not live in a democracy ?

Edited September 20, 2023 by Chekhov