Sheffield Council Faces Mass Equal Pay Claim Over Job Evaluation Scheme

[HeHasRisen]

4 minutes ago, wotnot said:

It's not so easy to work in a field where you don't fit in. For one thing, the banter isn't going to be the same.

There are two ways to achieve gender equality in pay, and increasing pay for women is only one of them. I hope the outcome won't be that caretakers gradually end up being paid less relative to the managers, bureaucrats, etc.

Don't know how you measure the difference in the work demands of cleaning versus caretaking. At the end of the day that will either be settled out of court or decided by a judge. It's interesting that female applicants for law degrees outnumber male applicants two to one. In the future will there be gender balance among senior legal professionals?

Dont caretakers usually have responsibilities regarding the premises, i.e. opening up, locking up etc?

Cleaners just turn up, clean, and then go.

Thats one obvious difference I can think of between the two.

[leviathan13]

3 hours ago, Anna B said:

Women's work has always been undervalued and this continues. 

In spite of endless legislation, women still only earn approx 75% of the male wage, and still do most of the housework and caring duties.

 

As always, earnings and salary being confused...

 

It is illegal, and has been for some decades, for an employer to pay different salaries for the same job. However, the EARNINGS differ due to the choices made by the individuals.

 

Want to earn the same as a man, do the same hours or the same type of work.

[dan_999uk]

Lol crikey.

[leviathan13]

14 minutes ago, HeHasRisen said:

Dont caretakers usually have responsibilities regarding the premises, i.e. opening up, locking up etc?

Cleaners just turn up, clean, and then go.

Thats one obvious difference I can think of between the two.

And carrying out repairs etc.

[sheffbag]

4 hours ago, Anna B said:

Women's work has always been undervalued and this continues. 

In spite of endless legislation, women still only earn approx 75% of the male wage, and still do most of the housework and caring duties.

 

complete and utter rubbish.

 

Show me a job that men and women can apply for but it says that women will be paid less for it.

 

If that was the case, companies would just hire women and not men as it would cost them less.

Want more money? move jobs

[Dannyno]

2 hours ago, leviathan13 said:

As always, earnings and salary being confused...

 

It is illegal, and has been for some decades, for an employer to pay different salaries for the same job. However, the EARNINGS differ due to the choices made by the individuals.

 

Want to earn the same as a man, do the same hours or the same type of work.

What Anna B is referring to, I think, is the overall difference between what men are being paid and what women are being paid, overall.   It is now illegal to pay men and women differently for the same work, or work of equal value, but there can still be an overall difference.    Some of that difference is because men and women are told they are good at certain things and not others, and so social expectations can direct people into different types of roles, some of which might be paid less.   Some of that difference is because women take more time out of work when they have children, and so fall behind a bit.   Some of that difference is likely because of discrimination.   Some of that difference might even be because men and women have different preferences and make different choices - but the point of course is to keep jobs open to all and always to appoint the best person, and to encourage everyone to think about all possibilities.

 

The argument GMB seem to be making is that it is the job evaluation scheme that is at fault, ie that it happens to calculate grades for jobs mainly done by women lower than grades for jobs mainly done by men.     

 

In other words, this is an argument about work of "equal value".   So while it is true that a cleaner and a caretaker are not the same jobs, exactly, the question is whether they are of equal value, and how you establish that.

 

[HeHasRisen]

A caretaker quite clearly isn't the same job as a cleaner.  The former has more responsibility. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by HeHasRisen

[Mister M]

2 hours ago, sheffbag said:

complete and utter rubbish.

 

Show me a job that men and women can apply for but it says that women will be paid less for it.

 

If that was the case, companies would just hire women and not men as it would cost them less.

Want more money? move jobs

 I don't think Anna is saying that it is advertised that women will receive less than men, but the fact is on many occasion they still do.

 

 

[leviathan13]

1 minute ago, Mister M said:

 I don't think Anna is saying that it is advertised that women will receive less than men, but the fact is on many occasion they still do.

 

 

But not because of sexism and everything to do with with life choices.

[GleadlessLad]

The unions pushed Sheffield Council into conducting a Job Evaluation exercise for all employees about 14 years ago.  Pay for some posts was then reduced, while pay was increased for other posts.  Obviously this caused a lot of upset & stress for those folk who'd been appointed to a particular grade, only to be told - often many years later - that the grade for their job was now being arbitrarily reduced & therefore their pay would be cut - often significantly - when they had mortgages to pay etc.

 

A number of departments then suffered a loss of experienced staff as people left to work for other employers who were paying something like the original rates, while SCC subsequently struggled to fill the resulting vacancies with the right calibre of person because the remuneration wasn't judged as being competitive by potential applicants.

 

Throughout that job evaluation process (circa 2009), SCC repeatedly said that it was necessary in order to protect the authority from any liability in future for large expenses resulting from equal pay claims.

 

After the process had ended, all new posts ever since were run through the same Job Evaluation criteria to ensure "fair grading".

 

Hence I find it difficult to understand why GMB seem to be trying to re-visit the process?