Ukraine In World War Two .

[geared]

16 hours ago, cuttsie said:

Just listened to a play on radio 4 about the Ukrainians in World war two and it was not good listening 

Well that's a wonderful primary source you've got there, just spiffing.

 

  

16 hours ago, cuttsie said:

Russia still remembers this cooperation with the Nazi's and many in Russia hold a grudge to this day , 

So just another thought on the present day situation where recent history is still engrained in Russian minds .

 

but is it though?  Do you know that for certain?

 

Prior to this war, before all the propaganda (from both sides) do you actually remember any recent instances where it was clear the public still held a grudge over these actions???  

 

 

[cuttsie]

1 hour ago, geared said:

Well that's a wonderful primary source you've got there, just spiffing.

 

  

 

but is it though?  Do you know that for certain?

 

Prior to this war, before all the propaganda (from both sides) do you actually remember any recent instances where it was clear the public still held a grudge over these actions???  

 

 

Many invaded Countries helped the Germans in the murder of Jews and others . 

Russia still remembers because they were invaded and lost millions of citizens in that holocaust .

They look around now and see the rise of the far right in the EU and Ukraine among others .

History always repeats its self .

[geared]

A long winded way of saying NO, but whatever.

 

If history always repeats itself, I'm looking forward to the next Roman empire so I can strut about the place in a Toga.

[Padders]

1 hour ago, geared said:

A long winded way of saying NO, but whatever.

 

If history always repeats itself, I'm looking forward to the next Roman empire so I can strut about the place in a Toga.

Hackey Lad already does that.........

[melthebell]

13 hours ago, The_DADDY said:

 

Ukraines army and its allies on the ground are getting absolutely obliterated by the Russians.

 

no they arent stop lying, everything i see online the Russians are struggling, maybe the news youre getting from your dodgy sources is telling you that. just a week ago there was a devestating attack on the "best" of Russias navy, apparently

[The_DADDY]

3 hours ago, melthebell said:

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stop lying,

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The only ones lying are mainstream mate👍

3 hours ago, melthebell said:

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 everything i see online the Russians are struggling,

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There's ya problem. 

Keep away from those anti Russian echo chambers,  you'll thank me for it. 

[geared]

4 hours ago, melthebell said:

no they arent stop lying, everything i see online the Russians are struggling, maybe the news youre getting from your dodgy sources is telling you that. just a week ago there was a devestating attack on the "best" of Russias navy, apparently

Both sides are taking heavy losses, the Russian defences have been extremely robust.  The ground re-taken in this offensive has been pretty minimal.

 

The Ukrainians have claimed some big and expensive items though, large naval vessels like Submarines, air defence systems and large landing craft are not so easily replaced.  Those are the big losses that do make the top brass take notice.

[Chekhov]

On 28/09/2023 at 17:27, cuttsie said:

Just listened to a play on radio 4 about the Ukrainians in World war two and it was not good listening as many seemingly welcomed the Nazi's into the Country and took a big part into helping with the rounding up , killing and sending the Jews to the extermination camps .

 

Russia still remembers this cooperation with the Nazi's and many in Russia hold a grudge to this day , 

So just another thought on the present day situation where recent history is still engrained in Russian minds .

Not saying this is a excuse for the present war  of course 

Arguably Hitler's biggest mistake was not invading Russia, it was failing to work with the vast  number of people in many Eastern European countries who hated Russia in general and Stalin and the NKVD in particular.

Many many, especially Ukrainians, hated the Russians with a passion because Stalin killed so many of them (up to 4 million Ukrainians) during his forced collectivisation of farming. Thus it is totally understandable that many of them initially saw the Germans as liberators.

Fortunately, for the allies and the Russians, Hitler was never going to work with the anti Soviet factions in these countries because he regarded them as "untermenschen" (inferior beings from the east), and he wanted to steal their land for "Lebensraum" ("living space", for Germans only, obviously).

And the rest, as they say, is history. But it is entirely possible Hitler might have won, had he been more sensible and reasonable in his strategy. But, then again, had he been so he's have quit after the Sudetenland "triumph" (for him at any rate).

 

To sum up, few could blame the Ukrainians for being anti Russian back in 1940.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Chekhov

[Chekhov]

11 hours ago, geared said:

A long winded way of saying NO, but whatever.

If history always repeats itself, I'm looking forward to the next Roman empire so I can strut about the place in a Toga.

The fall of modern society might not be as far away as people think, if one uses the fall of Rome as an example.

They literally went mad toward the end, people marrying goats and all sorts of crazy stuff.

What's happening now though ?

Men can be women and women can be men, and people are not even supposed to deny it's possible, much less criticise it.

If you ever complain about anything be very wary, raising your voice could get you blacklisted from all shops.

They shut down most of society for a virus 99% of people were surviving and which had an average age of death in the low 80s (the first time ever remember).

Oh yes, and you are not even allowed to take pics of your own kids if there are any other kids about.

 

23 hours ago, The_DADDY said:

Let me stop you there.

Yes, we can watch because that's all we can do.

Ukraines army and its allies on the ground are getting absolutely obliterated by the Russians and if we don't stop supporting Ukraine and their corrupt government we will be on the chopping block too.

We are playing a dangerous game with putin, one we have little to no chance of winning.

Peace talks are what we should be aiming for.....but we won't as America is pulling the strings and calling the tune.

Don't agree with you on this one mate.

Ukraine is a democracy and Russian is led by an evil SOAB who thinks he's Peter the Great.

We should continue supporting Ukriane come what may, and only they should be the ones to decide if they want to negotiate with that madman.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Chekhov

[The_DADDY]

4 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Don't agree with you on this one mate.

Ukraine is a democracy and Russian is led by an evil SOAB who thinks he's Peter the Great.

We should continue supporting Ukriane come what may, and only they should be the ones to decide if they want to negotiate with that madman.

Fair enough matey.

Although I would say look into 2014, the agreements that were signed and also America's involvement in the 2014 'revolution'..👍

We certainly should Not be supporting Ukriane in my humble opinion. Zelensky is corrupt and a thief who acts like a dictator with his political opposition, churches, priests etc etc. When a Russian victory is eventually declared we might be next along with the rest of Europe. Putin is a dangerous, DANGEROUS man and we could be in his crosshairs in the not too distant future. We need to pressure Ukraine for a negotiated peace, stop the killing and end any chance this war could escalate. I genuinely fear the likes of putin. Like any leader he has no problem sending young men to die yet won't send their own flesh and blood. For that I hope he burns in hell.

However, he did not start this war.

Unpopular opinion I know 😬