hauxwell Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 4 hours ago, Axe said: Israel created a buffer zone because of continually being attacked by Muslims. If Hamas stopped firing rockets into Israel then they would not retaliate. A good point on how the Jews have transformed a desert into a modern day country. Yes after they were attacked by Arab States they did take more land to create a buffer zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m williamson Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, harvey19 said: All I get is you postings about the alleged wrong done by the security forces. That is bias. I have not heard any anti Irish bigotry but have read criticism of terrorism from all sides. My posts are responding to comments that are aimed in one direction only. To hear some on here ( not all ) you'd think that the security forces and British authorities were squeaky clean and in line for sainthood. Most ordinary squaddies over there generally behaved themselves as they should. I chose an ex British soldier who'd served in Northern Ireland to join me as a fellow director in the company I formed in 1984. My posts are intended to provide a balance to the one way " They're all bad, we're all good " nonsense. There are two sides to virtually everything. There were an element of the security forces that literally got away with murder, torture and framing innocents. Which is why the current government wants to bring in the Legacy and Reconciliation Act in order to prevent further investigation into crimes committed by a select few. Have a look at the timeline of the Troubles which started in 1966. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Troubles Take note of 21st of May 1966. The first killings and bombings were carried out by so called ' Loyalists ' the first murder of an RUC police officer and also the first murder of an RUC police woman were carried out by ' Loyalists ' . State forces physically attacked Civil Rights protestors who were simply asking for Equality for the Catholic nationalist community. When people meet with unmitigated sectarian discrimination in their own country it isn't going to end well, and it didn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delbow Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, m williamson said: My posts are responding to comments that are aimed in one direction only. To hear some on here ( not all ) you'd think that the security forces and British authorities were squeaky clean and in line for sainthood. Most ordinary squaddies over there generally behaved themselves as they should. I chose an ex British soldier who'd served in Northern Ireland to join me as a fellow director in the company I formed in 1984. My posts are intended to provide a balance to the one way " They're all bad, we're all good " nonsense. There are two sides to virtually everything. There were an element of the security forces that literally got away with murder, torture and framing innocents. Which is why the current government wants to bring in the Legacy and Reconciliation Act in order to prevent further investigation into crimes committed by a select few. Have a look at the timeline of the Troubles which started in 1966. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Troubles Take note of 21st of May 1966. The first killings and bombings were carried out by so called ' Loyalists ' the first murder of an RUC police officer and also the first murder of an RUC police woman were carried out by ' Loyalists ' . State forces physically attacked Civil Rights protestors who were simply asking for Equality for the Catholic nationalist community. When people meet with unmitigated sectarian discrimination in their own country it isn't going to end well, and it didn't. I think you and l00b are probably the sanest people on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m williamson Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Delbow said: I think you and l00b are probably the sanest people on this forum. Thanks for that, but have to say in all honesty if that's the case it's a bit worrying for everyone else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delbow Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, m williamson said: Thanks for that, but have to say in all honesty if that's the case it's a bit worrying for everyone else! Yeah I mean it's a low bar, but still 😊 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 hours ago, harvey19 said: All I get is you postings about the alleged wrong done by the security forces. That is bias. I have not heard any anti Irish bigotry but have read criticism of terrorism from all sides. Why don't you let it drop. You have a very unhealthy interest in the affairs of Ireland considering that you are not Irish. m williamson quite clearly knows far more about that situation than you and I put together and yet, you will not let up despite knowing mothing except what you have read. It's clear to see that you are only going to accept the British side of things so why waste time discussing it. I am surprised that your co-debater has managed to stay so polite throughout. I will repeat the one important point - That if people did not enter another country and start throwing their weight about, there would be no terrorists at all. People need to be left alone to get on with their lives without foreign interference and that applies not only to NI, but throughout this world. We need peace and co-operation and not war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, m williamson said: My posts are responding to comments that are aimed in one direction only. To hear some on here ( not all ) you'd think that the security forces and British authorities were squeaky clean and in line for sainthood. Most ordinary squaddies over there generally behaved themselves as they should. I chose an ex British soldier who'd served in Northern Ireland to join me as a fellow director in the company I formed in 1984. My posts are intended to provide a balance to the one way " They're all bad, we're all good " nonsense. There are two sides to virtually everything. There were an element of the security forces that literally got away with murder, torture and framing innocents. Which is why the current government wants to bring in the Legacy and Reconciliation Act in order to prevent further investigation into crimes committed by a select few. Have a look at the timeline of the Troubles which started in 1966. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Troubles Take note of 21st of May 1966. The first killings and bombings were carried out by so called ' Loyalists ' the first murder of an RUC police officer and also the first murder of an RUC police woman were carried out by ' Loyalists ' . State forces physically attacked Civil Rights protestors who were simply asking for Equality for the Catholic nationalist community. When people meet with unmitigated sectarian discrimination in their own country it isn't going to end well, and it didn't. I am well aware of the incidents you refer to. Look at the complete history of the troubles instead of just one sided. The proportion of alleged crimes and number of security force people involved are tiny in relation to the crimes committed by terrorists. Look back at your posts and you will see why I mentioned bias. Question for you. Have all the atrocities, deaths, maiming been worth a United Ireland when I explained to you it could have been achieved peacefully. And please no history lessons Look through your past posts and you have regularly highlighted alleged crimes committed by the security forces. 6 minutes ago, Organgrinder said: Why don't you let it drop. You have a very unhealthy interest in the affairs of Ireland considering that you are not Irish. m williamson quite clearly knows far more about that situation than you and I put together and yet, you will not let up despite knowing mothing except what you have read. It's clear to see that you are only going to accept the British side of things so why waste time discussing it. I am surprised that your co-debater has managed to stay so polite throughout. I will repeat the one important point - That if people did not enter another country and start throwing their weight about, there would be no terrorists at all. People need to be left alone to get on with their lives without foreign interference and that applies not only to NI, but throughout this world. We need peace and co-operation and not war. Why don't you keep out of it ? You know nothing but make things up. Edited October 10, 2023 by harvey19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delbow Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) Interesting how when people like @m williamson draw people's attention to the less 'official' histories (i.e. not the ones told by governments and the Establishment) the posters who claim to distrust the mainstream media are the first to retreat into the mainstream narrative, aka what they've been told to believe Edited October 10, 2023 by Delbow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, harvey19 said: I am well aware of the incidents you refer to. Look at the complete history of the troubles instead of just one sided. The proportion of alleged crimes and number of security force people involved are tiny in relation to the crimes committed by terrorists. Look back at your posts and you will see why I mentioned bias. Question for you. Have all the atrocities, deaths, maiming been worth a United Ireland when I explained to you it could have been achieved peacefully. And please no history lessons Look through your past posts and you have regularly highlighted alleged crimes committed by the security forces. Why don't you keep out of it ? You know nothing but make things up. PROVE IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Bundy Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Anna B said: This is more about territory than religious differences. Most people just want to live harmoniously amongst their neighbours. Arabs and Jews did so for centuries in this region. I think if the original boundaries had been kept to and the issues properly handled with respect, the peace would have held long term, and terrorist fanatics like Hamas would never have happened. Terrorists are made, not born. I respectfully disagree Anna. I can't believe the naivety of folk, I really can't. Imagine if Palestine became fully independent and was given full self determination and unrestricted movement. Just imagine! What do you think the future might look like for Israel? Are you genuinely that blind to the ideological hatred that exists with Hamas and their supporters? Despite the recent massacre perpetrated by Hamas I'm struggling to find equivalent sentiment by Jews being expressed anywhere around the world. And people wonder whose supporters have a problem with humanity and ideology? Hamas is an Islamist terror organisation, it means they share the same view of groups like ISIS. This is nothing to do with liberation but about dominance. Edited October 10, 2023 by Al Bundy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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