Guest Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Interesting article from Helen Lewis in The Atlantic: The Progressives Who Flunked the Hamas Test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Hecate said: Interesting article from Helen Lewis in The Atlantic: The Progressives Who Flunked the Hamas Test Interesting reading though I have not read all the lot yet. I don't have problems with my thoughts on this and find it quite straightforward to apportion blame. Israelis should NOT be occupying Palestinian land. I support the Palestinian people who have been oppressed for far too long. I condemn the terrorists of Hamas or any other terrorist group who are willing to kill innocent civilians. I do not agree with killing civilians at all and that includes Israeli settlers, but the settlers should be made to leave, as should every Israeli on Palestinian land. Israel will never manage to rid itself of Hamas by war and bombing. They should make peace with Palestine and vacate Palestinian land so that Hamas no longer has any general civilian support. The rest would have to be sought out by stealth methods which could not possibly be more futile than bombs and shells. I would NOT condone attacks on any Israeli civilians either in Israel or elsewhere but The Israelis should be made to obey International Law at all times. Edited October 23, 2023 by Organgrinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carosio Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Organgrinder said: If they are so hated, by so many different nations and people, Would you care to explain how they manage to be so unpopular ? In the Middle East, the problem is territory and religion, but in Europe (West) it probably originated with the accusation that Jews were the "Christ Killers". This article by "Jewish Learning" explains: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-historical-roots-of-anti-semitism/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRB Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, trastrick said: I will persist in asking you to explain why you believe there are moderates in Hamas, a certified terrorist organization. You can choose not to answer, and I can accept that. Well bloody obviously not all those who voted for Hamas are terrorists as in not all who voted for Sinn Fein were bombers. Or perhaps all who voted for Trump identified with white supremacists,neo nazis etc. Following your logic and beliefs you will soon share the view of some others that All Palestinians support Hamas All Hamas are terrorists All Hamas are Muslims Ergo all Muslims are terrorists I can answer whatever you wish if it helps you to see that bombing the hell out of civilians is no more a step in the right direction than the terrorist attack on Israeli settlements. Edited October 23, 2023 by RJRB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, RJRB said: Or perhaps all who voted for Trump identified with white supremacists,neo nazis etc. Well... they'd have to... right? 🙄 🤣 Edited October 23, 2023 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trastrick Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Organgrinder said: They (Israel) should make peace with Palestine and vacate Palestinian land so that Hamas no longer has any general civilian support. As usual, a torturous attempt to be on all sides of the issue, but you gave it away with the above.. If Israel "made peace" with Palestine, and left all Palestinian land. The outcome would be nothing less than a victory for the Islamic terrorists, like in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the cries for the destruction of the only democracy in the Middle East would grow only louder. Especially by their sponsors, the terrorist state of Iran. Like with the Ukraine, the civilized solution to the problem would be partition, with security guaranteed and enforced by the International Community if the AWOL United Nations could forget about the weather a hundred years from now and get a real act together. Like in India, Korea, Ireland, the Balkans, et al. But if it comes to all out war, this is one that Israel could win, unlike the Ukraine. The good news? We are just one year away from a major election in the U.S., and I've no doubt that some sanity will return to America's Foreign Policy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, trastrick said: We are just one year away from a major election in the U.S., and I've no doubt that some sanity will return to America's Foreign Policy! Given the previous incumbent left office with the largest fall in the international reputation of the US in two-decades, who's foreign policies received little or no support internationally... ...does not seem likely! 🤣 Edited October 23, 2023 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m williamson Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 30 minutes ago, trastrick said: Like with the Ukraine, the civilized solution to the problem would be partition, with security guaranteed and enforced by the International Community if the AWOL United Nations could forget about the weather a hundred years from now and get a real act together. Like in India, Korea, Ireland, the Balkans, et al. Partition, the civilised solution? How did that work out for the countries you named above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Organgrinder said: Interesting reading though I have not read all the lot yet. I don't have problems with my thoughts on this and find it quite straightforward to apportion blame. Israelis should NOT be occupying Palestinian land. I support the Palestinian people who have been oppressed for far too long. I condemn the terrorists of Hamas or any other terrorist group who are willing to kill innocent civilians. I do not agree with killing civilians at all and that includes Israeli settlers, but the settlers should be made to leave, as should every Israeli on Palestinian land. Israel will never manage to rid itself of Hamas by war and bombing. They should make peace with Palestine and vacate Palestinian land so that Hamas no longer has any general civilian support. The rest would have to be sought out by stealth methods which could not possibly be more futile than bombs and shells. I would NOT condone attacks on any Israeli civilians either in Israel or elsewhere but The Israelis should be made to obey International Law at all times. Which Palestinian land do you refer to, is it that land before the 1948 homeland was created or recent incursions ? I have read that there are underground tunnels for use to attack Isreal, could the purpose of some of the shelling be to destroy these tunnels ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trastrick Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 On 22/10/2023 at 10:02, RJRB said: Hamas itself is a political party with some moderates within its ranks. Don't project your twisted logic on to my statements. Let's stay on topic. Hamas is designated a Terrorist Group. By the U.S. Europe, Israel, Australia, Japan, and Canada, usually referred to as our "Allies". My question to you was, and is: "I was asking if you could enlighten us by explaining what a moderate terrorist is, and how one should differentiate between a moderate, and an immoderate terrorist". This is important, because it would certainly inform the correct Israeli response to a terrorist attack. You may answer, or not! Last chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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