The Yom Kippur War .

[harvey19]

14 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

The subject of this thread is NOT me.  It's  The Yom Kippur War .  

Use a little common sense for a change and try to address the subject.  It's far more interesting than me,  and will give you the chance to demonstrate  how little you know of either.

 

Sorry.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, trastrick said:

 

 

Your views, and blame,  on attacking a sovereign nation vis a vis Ukraine/Israel, are 180 degrees apart. Cease fire/negotiated settlement for one but not the other/ Or is it the other way around?

 

But always conform to the Guardian/BBC/telly narratives, current at the time.

 

Independent thinker?

 

Think again! 

 

 

 

Got it wrong again beachbum.  

I said that we need a cease fire and negotiated, PLUS SUPERVISED, settlement in the middle east.

I never made any statement at all on what Ukraine should do  -  I said that it was up to the people of Ukraine to decide for themselves.  I still hold to that view.

I also said that,  in the same position as Ukraine,  I would fight rather than surrender but it's not my place to choose for them.

You are becoming a bigger liar every day by making false statements about other posters.   THATS TWICE TODAY ALONE.

Please prove otherwise if you can    again.

 

1 minute ago, harvey19 said:

Sorry.

Thank you.

[trastrick]

36 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

That bit of garbage,  roughly translated,  means the beachbum has lost without even managing to debate, and is now retiring from the fray.

 

Happy sweeping and no,  I don't live alone and I think that tumbleweed characters such as yourself are a bit odd. 

I have a partner as of the last 50 years.

 

Take care of each other!

 

Cling on to your fantasies, but don't post them in public as facts! Put a little smiley on your comments, so we can all have a laugh!

 

For the record, I do not sweep out beach shacks for a living! I let it go once, but you have repeated it, and you are still lying about me in the above post.

 

So to show you I'm NOT ''retiring from the fray", we'll play your game, what you claim is a "debate".

 

That terrorist poster pinned up in the beach shack where I work as a sweeper, contained a  prayer to to Allah, and a special mention of you as a friend of the Jihad. 

 

Your turn!

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, trastrick said:

Take care of each other!

 

Cling on to your fantasies, but don't post them in public as facts! Put a little smiley on your comments, so we can all have a laugh!

 

For the record, I do not sweep out beach shacks for a living! I let it go once, but you have repeated it, and you are still lying about me in the above post.

 

So to show you I'm NOT ''retiring from the fray", we'll play your game, what you claim is a "debate".

 

That terrorist poster pinned up in the beach shack where I work as a sweeper, contained a  prayer to to Allah, and a special mention of you as a friend of the Jihad. 

 

Your turn!

 

You're mad  and everyone on the forum can see it.

[trastrick]

But back to topic!

 

As some astute followers of the Media are aware, a conventional wisdom, "narrative" can change, as I say, in a New York minute!

 

Some recent examples. "Trump will start WW3", "Russian Collusion",  Wuhan Lab COVID Origin is a Conspiracy Theory, "Biden is up to the Job" and a few others.

 

The latest comes to us courtesy of where else?  The New York Times.

 

The New York Times

 

WHY HAMAS MUST GO!

 

"After Oct. 7, there are many Israelis who believe their survival as a state is at stake. That may sound like an exaggeration, but to them, it’s not. If Hamas persists as a military force and is still running Gaza after this war is over, it will attack Israel again. And whether or not Hezbollah opens a true second front from Lebanon during this conflict, it, too, will attack Israel in the future. The aim of these groups, both of which are backed by Iran, is to make Israel unlivable and drive Israelis to leave: While Iran has denied involvement in the Hamas attack, Ali Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, has long talked about Israel not surviving for another 25 years, and his strategy has been to use these militant proxies to achieve that goal.

 

"Israel is not alone in believing it must defeat Hamas. Over the past two weeks, when I talked to Arab officials throughout the region whom I have long known, every single one told me that Hamas must be destroyed in Gaza. They made clear that if Hamas is perceived as winning, it will validate the group’s ideology of rejection, give leverage and momentum to Iran and its collaborators and put their own governments on the defensive."

 

https://dnyuz.com/2023/10/27/why-hamas-must-go/

 

So all you sheeple out there, who are excusing the terrorists as mere "freedom fighters" better start getting your duck in order to seamlessly slide into the newly developing "narrative" as best you can.

 

Our Orgy, bless him, has no such problems, because he has a post on every side of any issue he can point to and insist he was right all along.

 

Actually to his credit, he's a little ahead of most of his clapping seal followers. It will be easy for him. But like the MSM, when push comes to shove, they have no problem leaving their gullible readers and viewers to the fates.

 

They are after all Multinational Corporations, who need to sell soap, drugs and cars to survive. 

 

Salesmen! 

 

(Maybe their Marketing gurus and Admen have realized that terrorists don't buy soap, drugs and cars as much as Western telly watchers.   )

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by trastrick

[cuttsie]

2 hours ago, RJRB said:

Whilst you argued long and hard that ultimately the only way forward in Ukraine was a negotiated diplomatic settlement and that those supporting Ukraine had blood on their hands.

There is some truth in that but what concerns everyone is how long and how much blood is needed before any rapprochement occurs.

You might recall that Trump hoped to get the two sides together and ultimately came away saying that Netanyahu never had any intention of reaching any 2 state agreement.

Organgrinder has in my opinion a far wider and more consistent narrative than your own

One minute you point the finger at armchair warriors whilst you are the armchair pacifist then Hey Presto.....

Both sides are driven by the extremist minority to the cost of both nations.

The history goes back further than the events of 7/11 because either no one fully accepted the intended 2 state solution and one side has used its power to extend its control beyond agreed borders.

The siege of Palestine on top of the daily bombings will achieve nothing constructive.

Backing people into a corner never does.

 

Who is the aggressor that has lead to the present situation .

 

Who are the aggressors that start all the wars involving the promised land .

 

Every one are the Muslim fanatics that wage so called Holy war against the West and also Israel , They hate the Jewish people and the Western CIVILISED  carry on .

They treat women as second class citizens , they torture and imprison the LBG 's among us and despise our carry on while living among us .

We of course are the problem . Remember i said the fanatics before you jump on the case . 

[RJRB]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

Most rational folks have enough common sense to differentiate between the two.

 

 

Is  a group dedicated to destroying a democrat country a freedom fighter?

Is a group dedicated to destroying any country what you want to achieve

 

Folks who set off bombs in subways of big cities?

Remember Oklahoma City

 

It's a sick moral equivalency, promulgated by uncivilized barbarians, and their enablers!

Theres no shortage of them ,many in democracies.

It seems that you are a would be enabler for any amount of collateral damage in the belief that Hamas will be defeated in this way.

I suspect that there has been more civilian deaths already than there are active Hamas terrorists.Never mind,the current actions will ensure further recruits for years to come.

 

[trastrick]

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

Got it wrong again beachbum.  

I said that we need a cease fire and negotiated, PLUS SUPERVISED, settlement in the middle east.

I never made any statement at all on what Ukraine should do  -  I said that it was up to the people of Ukraine to decide for themselves.  I still hold to that view.

I also said that,  in the same position as Ukraine,  I would fight rather than surrender but it's not my place to choose for them.

I said.....

 

I never made any statement.....

 

I also said.....

 

 

[RJRB]

27 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

Who is the aggressor that has lead to the present situation .

 

Who are the aggressors that start all the wars involving the promised land .

 

Every one are the Muslim fanatics that wage so called Holy war against the West and also Israel , They hate the Jewish people and the Western CIVILISED  carry on .

They treat women as second class citizens , they torture and imprison the LBG 's among us and despise our carry on while living among us .

We of course are the problem . Remember i said the fanatics before you jump on the case . 

I think the clue is in the words Palestine and Palestinians rather than Gaza and the West Bank.

When you back people into a corner the outcome is predictable and fuels terrorism and guerilla warfare.

You need to go back a bit further than Oct 7th to get any sort of understanding.

That is just the latest atrocity and then we enter a new chapter .

Check out the Stern Gang

I am not on one side or the other.

Nor was I when Yugoslavia fell apart.

I am glad that we live in a relatively peaceful country.

Lucky aren’t we ?

 

 

[cuttsie]

2 minutes ago, RJRB said:

I think the clue is in the words Palestine and Palestinians rather than Gaza and the West Bank.

When you back people into a corner the outcome is predictable and fuels terrorism and guerilla warfare.

You need to go back a bit further than Oct 7th to get any sort of understanding.

That is just the latest atrocity and then we enter a new chapter .

Check out the Stern Gang

I am not on one side or the other.

Nor was I when Yugoslavia fell apart.

I am glad that we live in a relatively peaceful country.

Lucky aren’t we ?

 

 

Back people into a corner , Bang on with that , Israel are surrounded with hate .