The Yom Kippur War .

[Guest]

9 hours ago, RJRB said:

That’s interesting .

I would have thought your experience would give you some insight as to the nature of land acquisitions by “Settlers” on the Western Bank  and possibilities for conflict resolution.

I've noticed through this debate,  how little mention there's been of  land "aquisitions" by "the settlers" and it would seem that only those who have spoken up for ordinary Palestinians are aware of it.

Does the average person see no wrong in this practise and if so, why ?   What would we do if someone came along and took our garden,   followed by our home,  and expected us to comply like sheep ?

I'm quite willing to listen if someone with opposite views to myself would care to justify these acts and explain why the law should take no action and why we should not condemn it.

Another puzzle is why the law should allow any person to have a free view of any nationality on earth except one ?  It's ok to dislike a's,  or b's,  or c's,  but if you dislike  d's,  you are in trouble.

Why should we suspend the right to judge,  form a view,  and express a view of any individual,  no matter what they do,  simply because of that person's nationality ?

       meaning of course that nationality can do exactly as they please,  causing hurt and hardship,  to whoever they like,   but they must always be deemed to have done no wrong ? 

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Organgrinder

[RJRB]

21 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

I've noticed through this debate,  how little mention there's been of  land "aquisitions" by "the settlers" and it would seem that only those who have spoken up for ordinary Palestinians are aware of it.

Does the average person see no wrong in this practise and if so, why ?   What would we do if someone came along and took our garden,   followed by our home,  and expected us to comply like sheep ?

I'm quite willing to listen if someone with opposite views to myself would care to justify these acts and explain why the law should take no action and why we should not condemn it.

Another puzzle is why the law should allow any person to have a free view of any nationality on earth except one ?  It's ok to dislike a's,  or b's,  or c's,  but if you dislike  d's,  you are in trouble.

Why should we suspend the right to judge,  form a view,  and express a view of any individual,  no matter what they do,  simply because of that person's nationality ?

       meaning of course that nationality can do exactly as they please,  causing hurt and hardship,  to whoever they like,   but they must always be deemed to have done no wrong ? 

 

Re bold.

I don’t think it’s even a question of dislike for many on here.

To dislike a whole nation seems totally irrational to me whether it be Russians,Jews ,Germans or whoever.

To dislike the views or actions of some individuals or groups is certainly possible for me.

What I don’t get at all is the dash to accuse someone of being anti .......whatever because you criticise or don’t support some of their actions.

I criticise this Tory Government.Does that make me unpatriotic in certain eyes.

Can you criticise a lifelong friend for something or other or must it always be total loyalty and support even if you think they are in the wrong.

That seems to be the stance of some,but it’s not mine

[Guest]

1 hour ago, RJRB said:

Re bold.

I don’t think it’s even a question of dislike for many on here.

To dislike a whole nation seems totally irrational to me whether it be Russians,Jews ,Germans or whoever.

To dislike the views or actions of some individuals or groups is certainly possible for me.

What I don’t get at all is the dash to accuse someone of being anti .......whatever because you criticise or don’t support some of their actions.

I criticise this Tory Government.Does that make me unpatriotic in certain eyes.

Can you criticise a lifelong friend for something or other or must it always be total loyalty and support even if you think they are in the wrong.

That seems to be the stance of some,but it’s not mine

Your view confirms my belief that in a common sense world,  that view would be the norm but yet,  it seems not to be.

I've often said that you cannot lump a whole nation together when each human is so different in views, beliefs,  and in their actions and temperaments.

This in itself shows how an anti-anything  label could never be accurate when we all think in such a diverse way.

Like you,  I criticise our government and often include the opposition in my rebukes.

That tells me that this cruel and nasty tag is used simply as a means of preventing discussion of the subject and interfering with the free speech we are told we enjoy.

That's mass brainwashing if ever I saw it.

 

[trastrick]

11 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

What would we do if someone came along and took our garden,   followed by our home,  and expected us to comply like sheep ?

Happens all the time.

 

Under Western Colonialism,  Regime Change, New Liberal World Orders. et al. The answer is fight back to the best of your ability, and good luck to you.

 

Under Totalitarianism, ditto.

 

Under Democracy, seek adequate compensation, even if you believe that money can never substitute for the loss of the family home, built brick by brick, by your granddad.

 

When the State decide they need to construct a new hospital, school, highway, slum renewal, dam for flood control, public housing, or any of a myriad of "essential public services", they can take it from you in the name of the name of the Crown, and the good of the people.

 

Likewise, they can shut your business down, Auntie's Tea Room in the name of COVID, or farmers and factories in the name of Climate Change.

 

Those services that bring gas, electricity, water, sewers. telephone, internet, a new tram shed, solar and wind farms, roads, food and furniture and all the stuff you depend on every day, to your door, and new housing for a growing population, need other people's land.

 

Lots of it.

 

That's why the fine balance between individual rights and the rights of the public at large is/should be tempered with common sense, rather than blind trust in often incompetent governments.

 

And vigilance!

 

(It also creates a huge market for expert Land Acquisition Consultants with a proven track record) 🙂

 

There are a lot of NIMBY's out there!

 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by trastrick

[Guest]

3 hours ago, trastrick said:

Happens all the time.

 

There are a lot of NIMBY's out there!

 

 

Of course it does,  which is why we are supporting Ukraine.

And why we should be insisting that both Israel and Palestine,  follow International Law.

 

[RJRB]

After just reading through the “Conspiracy “ subject I see that OP has managed to make a connection between Holocaust Denial and some views that have been critical of Israeli actions and Zionist ambitions .

I do not think that this bears any resemblance to the truth and such views just fuel the fires that impact on the lives of Jews and Palestinians at this time.

 

 

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, RJRB said:

After just reading through the “Conspiracy “ subject I see that OP has managed to make a connection between Holocaust Denial and some views that have been critical of Israeli actions and Zionist ambitions .

I do not think that this bears any resemblance to the truth and such views just fuel the fires that impact on the lives of Jews and Palestinians at this time.

 

 

I fully agree with what you say and I was actually tempted to reply to those views.

Unfortunately we now have to tread rather carefully in case it leads to more dummy throwing and the realisation that a frank exchange of views is no longer possible.

In the meantime,  the best way of avoiding a nasty label is to express the view that all sides should respect and obey International Law always and,  at this time,  that is not happening.

Neither has it happened for the last 70 odd years.

 

[trastrick]

5 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Of course it does,  which is why we are supporting Ukraine.

And why we should be insisting that both Israel and Palestine,  follow International Law.

 

Each country has the right to choose its own government.

 

If they are wise, they will chose a government that enacts laws which allows its citizens to live in peace with each other, and their neighbors. They will rise and fall on their choices.

 

The "WE" in your statement implies that some other outside entity should be forcing them to comply with some Western Colonial Concept of "Law and Order" with its "Regime Change, and "New Liberal World Order" policies.

 

Given that there is no Global acceptance of the Western elite's enlightened version of law and order (or what others call the Decadent Great Satan) in this world of 8 billion people, that approach has failed almost wherever it has been tried, for obvious reasons.

 

So just who's version of law and order are you referring to, with your virtue signalling?

 

In the Ukraine, for example, Western influence, and Western promises, under Obama/Biden in 2014, incited and encouraged the overthrow of the duly elected pro Russian government of Ukraine. See WIKI

 

"deadly clashes between protesters and state forces in the capital Kyiv culminated in the ousting of elected President Viktor Yanukovych"

 

This, of course led to the action of the Totalitarian next door, to protect the democratic rights of his traditionally pro Russian allies, and the Russian speaking people.

 

The result of course, is the latest war in Europe, and the destruction of the Ukraine.

 

And Zelenski in a losing war, because he believed the promises of NATO and Obama/Biden to "stand with them" and "have their backs".

 

After the debacle of Afghanistan, Zelensky is finding out the hard way that the word of the West is not to be trusted!

 

He's on his own, Jack!

 

So, best to stay out of the Middle East wars, unless they threaten Western security.

 

The only answer to the two present major wars, is brokered negotiations, compromise on each side, and Partition, policed by volunteer peacekeepers from the U.N. until they can talk to each other again. If they won't come to the table and talk, let them choose their right to go to war.

 

That is, if the bloated U.N. can get it's Weather Forecasting Climate Change Industrial Complex's overpaid minions to pay attention to such archaic issues, such as World Peace! 🙂

 

While the politician waffle under incompetent leadership, the slaughter and destruction continues.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by trastrick

[cressida]

Thanks,  in a nutshell,  more than I knew before.👍

[mafya]

4 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

I fully agree with what you say and I was actually tempted to reply to those views.

Unfortunately we now have to tread rather carefully in case it leads to more dummy throwing and the realisation that a frank exchange of views is no longer possible.

In the meantime,  the best way of avoiding a nasty label is to express the view that all sides should respect and obey International Law always and,  at this time,  that is not happening.

Neither has it happened for the last 70 odd years.

 

I have looked on the thread myself and lo and behold I saw I was being labelled as anti semitic due to my posts!!

Disagreeing with the unlawful actions of the Israeli Govt and IDF is not anti semitism but some people see disagreeing with Israel’s unlawful acts as anti semitism.