The Yom Kippur War .

[harvey19]

8 hours ago, m williamson said:

Utterly pointless question. It happened, there's nothing that can alter that .

 

The point is who was responsible for the deaths, maiming and grief?  Presumably you believe that it was the Irish for not submitting to   another country interfering in their affairs for its own ends? 

You think they should just have accepted their place and submitted and not rebelled, despite being an older nation than the one doing the interfering? 

 

The country using force over centuries for its own purposes and refusing to acknowledge the wishes of the people for freedom were blameless in the events that happened?

Without the unwanted presence of another country in their land there would have been no IRA, no deaths, no maiming but in your eyes it was all the fault of the Irish?

A United Ireland is inevitable, when it happens will you think that all the deaths and grief suffered by those attempting to continue the unwanted interference in Ireland was worth it?

Dodged the question again. The question was do you think all the deaths and mailings were justified.

This thread is about terrorism.

8 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Show us where it says that apart from harvey's favourite sayings ?

You don't debate   -   you just make up a series of statements and claim that they are well known truths.

Proof enough by just taking one subject which you and Axe argue is fact, when a government department officially announces the opposite,  and you both refuse to accept that you're wrong.

 

We are right though, remind me again how as a U.K. citizen Charles is not your king.

Edited October 11, 2023 by harvey19

[harvey19]

8 hours ago, m williamson said:

 

Aaarh how sweet, birds of a feather flocking together 😍

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

As you like posting links post a link showing the number of deaths of civilians, police , army, terrorists and the number of bombings etc.

 

8 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Absolutely correct and undeniably the cause of terrorist organisations springing up.

In exactly the same way as would have happened in Britain,  if we had been overcome in 1940.

Free peoples ruling themselves have no need and no wish to start such organisations.

 

So do you think all the deaths and mailings were justified ?

I am talking about real people whilst you stand on the sidelines encouraging others to fight. You say you are a peacelover in one breath and then try to justify terrorism in another.

I do not try to justify armed conflicts.

Straight answer please.

Edited October 11, 2023 by harvey19

[Al Bundy]

3 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

So do you think all the deaths and mailings were justified ?

Straight answer please.

We all know what he thinks.

[Guest ThaBoom]

Resistance is justified when people are occupied.

 

 

[harvey19]

Political, armed ?

Edited October 11, 2023 by harvey19

[Delbow]

I bet we all wish Yasser Arafat had got the peaceful two state solution he was after now; I certainly do. The rape and killing of civilians by Hamas is abhorrent and now the IDF are lining up to flatten a territory that is home to nearly a million children, which will create generations of hatred. There were lots of things I didn't like about Blair's government, but negotiating peace in Northern Ireland was one of the best things any British PM has done in modern times. We got that peace because the British government (and Sinn Féin) genuinely wanted it - we were lucky.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Delbow

[m williamson]

51 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Dodged the question again. The question was do you think all the deaths and mailings were justified.

This thread is about terro

And I made the point that what I think is immaterial. How would I or anyone else be able to make a decision about it? Your attempt at diversion is less than impressive.

The fact is that you and your comrades including my mate spent their time in Ireland attempting to continue to impose the rule of Westminster on someone else's land.

Westminster accepted in the GFA that it no longer has the final say on that.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Jack Grey said:

Where was Organgrinder today? 🤔

I was at a medical appointment so you can't blame me for climbing the Town Hall.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, harvey19 said:

 

So do you think all the deaths and mailings were justified ?

I am talking about real people whilst you stand on the sidelines encouraging others to fight. You say you are a peacelover in one breath and then try to justify terrorism in another.

I do not try to justify armed conflicts.

Straight answer please.

Neither I,  nor anyone else,  has EVER claimed that all the deaths were justified.

If you want to cast aspersions on me then that's fine as long as you quote what I have said and not made it up with that Walt Disney imagination of yours.

I  have also NEVER justified terrorism  so quote please.

I am indeed a pace lover but,  do you not have the intelligence to know that you cannot have peace until you deal with the oppressor.

Straight answer to what   ???? a pack of lies which you just made up.

Cut the imagination and the stupidity and have a proper argument.  That was typical harvey   -   always short on actual facts.

 

[harvey19]

1 hour ago, m williamson said:

And I made the point that what I think is immaterial. How would I or anyone else be able to make a decision about it? Your attempt at diversion is less than impressive.

The fact is that you and your comrades including my mate spent their time in Ireland attempting to continue to impose the rule of Westminster on someone else's land.

Westminster accepted in the GFA that it no longer has the final say on that.

You have dodged the question again and that is the main and relevant part of the discussion.

Please answer.

I have told you before that I think reunification was on the cards from the 1970s.

The main reason was that the Catholic birthdate was more than the Protestant therefore the vote for reunification could have been peacefully if the people wanted it.

The land you speak of was part of the U.K. and the army were assisting the civil powers in a policing role against criminals. The RUC had been overwhelmed by the rioting in mainly Londonderry and Belfast and so needed help. Personally I believe mutual aid from U.K. police forces should have been used instead of the army. But in those days training was different.

I know you think the south definitely want reunification but I think they may be wary of what they could be taking on.

Because of the violence I think reunification has been delayed by one or two generations.

The official ira were working towards reunification by political means before the provisionals were created.

my question about the number of fatalities suffered by different sections is very relevant as it brings the actual human cost to the fore rather than sanitised political theory.

By the way I consider the British governments acted appallingly in certain areas..

Another book which may interest you is Torn Apart by Ken Wharton.

Edited October 11, 2023 by harvey19