The Yom Kippur War .

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

The fact is that as a U.K. citizen Charles is Your King.

If you want to live in a deluded fantasy world that is up to you.

You asked me for facts.

Try reading and learn something.

Good so long as you are not trying to justify killings.

well done for reducing the insults.

Silly boy.   Charles is nobody to me and to a lot more like me.

You haven't learned much from all this reading.  What is it ?     Alice in Wonderland ?

I have NEVER justified killings  OR INVASIONS,  OR OCCUPATIONS.   Unlike you,   I believe in freedom.

Don't think you know the difference between an insult and someone pointing out a failing on your part.

 

[cressida]

Harvey - I don't think it's Organgrinder - how have you managed to get the Royal thread on here again,  really!

[Padders]

1 hour ago, cuttsie said:

I am ashamed to think this happened in my City , Where are the police the Council security staff , OK the rising of flags in support is controversial but we did it when Ukraine was invaded no one objected although not every one supports Ukraine .

This mob have been interrupting passers by for years out side the Town Hall and get away with it . They completely ignore the massacre of people at a music festival and in a kibbutz,they stand and cheer in stead . 
Gazza now pays the price for having these gangsters in their midst, It is up to the ordinary people in that place to get rid of them before coming events make things ten times worse .

Those cheering idiots out side our Town Hall are encouraging this out come .

What's Paul Gascoigne got to do with it?

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, cressida said:

Harvey - I don't think it's Organgrinder - how have you managed to get the Royal thread on here again,  really!

It's because he can't think of anything to say about the shocking events in the Middle East.

His auto-pilot then takes him to  1 - royalty,   2 - Northern Ireland,   3  -  what book he's reading.

 

Note to harvey:      Don't bother speaking to me unless it concerns the subject of the thread.

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Organgrinder

[harvey19]

16 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Silly boy.   Charles is nobody to me and to a lot more like me.

You haven't learned much from all this reading.  What is it ?     Alice in Wonderland ?

I have NEVER justified killings  OR INVASIONS,  OR OCCUPATIONS.   Unlike you,   I believe in freedom.

Don't think you know the difference between an insult and someone pointing out a failing on your part.

 

Silly boy I believe in freedom where have I said I do not ?

I know an insult when  I hear one and hopefully you realise your past foolishness.

Why do you continue to make yourself look silly by saying Charles is not your king ?

13 minutes ago, cressida said:

Harvey - I don't think it's Organgrinder - how have you managed to get the Royal thread on here again,  really!

I do apologise but I am just trying to put Organgrinder posts into some kind of reality by giving him reality checks. It really is hard work. I will not do it again.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Silly boy I believe in freedom where have I said I do not ?

I know an insult when  I hear one and hopefully you realise your past foolishness.

Why do you continue to make yourself look silly by saying Charles is not your king ?

Please read cressida's post #372

And my post #374

And make this your very last,  stupid,   timewasting post to me.

You are the one who's looking silly

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Organgrinder

[m williamson]

1 hour ago, harvey19 said:

You have dodged the question again and that is the main and relevant part of the discussion.

Please answer.

I have told you before that I think reunification was on the cards from the 1970s.

The main reason was that the Catholic birthdate was more than the Protestant therefore the vote for reunification could have been peacefully if the people wanted it.

The land you speak of was part of the U.K. and the army were assisting the civil powers in a policing role against criminals. The RUC had been overwhelmed by the rioting in mainly Londonderry and Belfast and so needed help. Personally I believe mutual aid from U.K. police forces should have been used instead of the army. But in those days training was different.

I know you think the south definitely want reunification but I think they may be wary of what they could be taking on.

Because of the violence I think reunification has been delayed by one or two generations.

The official ira were working towards reunification by political means before the provisionals were created.

my question about the number of fatalities suffered by different sections is very relevant as it brings the actual human cost to the fore rather than sanitised political theory.

By the way I consider the British governments acted appallingly in certain areas..

Another book which may interest you is Torn Apart by Ken Wharton.

Let me ask you a couple of questions. Do you believe that freedom is worth fighting for? If you do, do you also accept that inevitably innocent people will suffer as a result, because they always do?

If on the other hand you don't believe that it was worth the tragedy it involved, you wouldn't resist in the event of England being invaded and another country imposing its laws upon us?

Because if you think otherwise then that would make you a hypocrite wouldn't it?  Believing that it's unacceptable for the Irish to fight for the freedom of their country from the control of another country, but at the same time believing that it would be perfectly right for England to do so is rank hypocrisy isn't it?

 

As for your contention that it could have been obtained by peaceful means that's sheer make believe.  When the Civil Rights Movement looked as though they might be making a small bit of progress toward Equality for the Catholic nationalist community Gusty Spence an ex British soldier formed the UVF and carried out Black Flag bombings of infrastructure in an attempt to blame the IRA which was inactive at the time.

The B specials attacked Civil Rights protestors a significant number of whom were protestants who simply wanted justice for their neighbours.

This occurred as a reaction to a request for Equality the chance of a reunited Ireland being achieved by peaceful means under those circumstances was nil.

The GFA came about as a direct result of the Troubles and it is that which will eventually bring about a United Ireland. The DUP are doing their scorpion on a frogs back cameo to try and put the voters in the Republic off but it won't work.

The majority of my family live in the Republic and I have old school and college friends there also. I've been twice this year once for a cousins wedding ( she married an Englishman 🙄 ) and once with my wife, daughter and grandchildren.

The Republic will vote Yes when the time comes. It was supposed to take a couple of generations and may still do, but Brexit threw a spanner in the works.

[Guest]

My reality check  ( and it's on topic ) is  - 

I do NOT support terrorists  but  I DO understand how and why they come to assemble.

I AM OPPOSED to  countries who invade other, smaller, weaker countries and consider that any repercussions from their behaviour are their own fault.

I consider that our own country, sometimes with allies,  have also been guilty of the same behaviour which we complain about in others and are therefore, hypocrites..

I feel frustration that the United Nations has been set up in such a way that it is not fulfilling its intended purpose  ( to keep world peace in a fair manner ).

When people are free to carry on their lives without threat or coercion from others,  they will be highly unlikely to engage in any warlike activities as they would have no reason.

I don't believe in war except as a last resort  against others who have the intention of attacking or harming us in any way.

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Organgrinder

[trastrick]

18 hours ago, m williamson said:

My posts are responding to comments that are aimed in one direction only.  To hear some on here ( not all ) you'd think that the security forces and British authorities were squeaky clean and in line for sainthood. Most ordinary squaddies over there generally behaved themselves as they should. I chose an ex British soldier who'd served in Northern Ireland to join me as a fellow director in the company I formed in 1984. 

My posts are intended to provide a balance to the one way " They're all bad, we're all good " nonsense. There are two sides to virtually everything.

 

There were an element of the security forces that literally got away with murder, torture and framing innocents. Which is why the current government wants to bring in the Legacy and Reconciliation Act in order to prevent further investigation into crimes committed by a select few.

 

Have a look at the timeline of the Troubles which started in 1966.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Troubles  Take note of 21st of May 1966.

The first killings and bombings were carried out by so called ' Loyalists ' the first murder of an RUC police officer and also the first murder of an RUC police woman were carried out by ' Loyalists ' .

State forces physically attacked Civil Rights protestors who were simply asking for Equality for the Catholic nationalist community. When people meet with unmitigated sectarian discrimination in their own country it isn't going to end well, and it didn't.

 

 

The roots and causes of the Irish "troubles", like the Middle East "troubles", and the European "troubles" and the Asian "troubles go back hundreds of years.

 

If we don't accept the realities of the present, and move on from there, it can never end well.

[harvey19]

25 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Please read cressida's post #372

And my post #374

And make this your very last,  stupid,   timewasting post to me.

You are the one who's looking silly

 

I will say Au Renoir.