The Yom Kippur War .

[m williamson]

1 minute ago, trastrick said:

The roots and causes of the Irish "troubles", like the Middle East "troubles", and the European "troubles" and the Asian "troubles go back hundreds of years.

 

If we don't accept the realities of the present, and move on from there, it can never end well.

Easy to say when it doesn't effect you personally. When there is still an obvious ongoing injustice involved things are a bit different. 

[harvey19]

20 minutes ago, m williamson said:

Let me ask you a couple of questions. Do you believe that freedom is worth fighting for? If you do, do you also accept that inevitably innocent people will suffer as a result, because they always do?

If on the other hand you don't believe that it was worth the tragedy it involved, you wouldn't resist in the event of England being invaded and another country imposing its laws upon us?

Because if you think otherwise then that would make you a hypocrite wouldn't it?  Believing that it's unacceptable for the Irish to fight for the freedom of their country from the control of another country, but at the same time believing that it would be perfectly right for England to do so is rank hypocrisy isn't it?

 

As for your contention that it could have been obtained by peaceful means that's sheer make believe.  When the Civil Rights Movement looked as though they might be making a small bit of progress toward Equality for the Catholic nationalist community Gusty Spence an ex British soldier formed the UVF and carried out Black Flag bombings of infrastructure in an attempt to blame the IRA which was inactive at the time.

The B specials attacked Civil Rights protestors a significant number of whom were protestants who simply wanted justice for their neighbours.

This occurred as a reaction to a request for Equality the chance of a reunited Ireland being achieved by peaceful means under those circumstances was nil.

The GFA came about as a direct result of the Troubles and it is that which will eventually bring about a United Ireland. The DUP are doing their scorpion on a frogs back cameo to try and put the voters in the Republic off but it won't work.

The majority of my family live in the Republic and I have old school and college friends there also. I've been twice this year once for a cousins wedding ( she married an Englishman 🙄 ) and once with my wife, daughter and grandchildren.

The Republic will vote Yes when the time comes. It was supposed to take a couple of generations and may still do, but Brexit threw a spanner in the works.

I would love to reply but as has been pointed out we should not discus it on this thread.

[cuttsie]

24 minutes ago, m williamson said:

Let me ask you a couple of questions. Do you believe that freedom is worth fighting for? If you do, do you also accept that inevitably innocent people will suffer as a result, because they always do?

If on the other hand you don't believe that it was worth the tragedy it involved, you wouldn't resist in the event of England being invaded and another country imposing its laws upon us?

Because if you think otherwise then that would make you a hypocrite wouldn't it?  Believing that it's unacceptable for the Irish to fight for the freedom of their country from the control of another country, but at the same time believing that it would be perfectly right for England to do so is rank hypocrisy isn't it?

 

As for your contention that it could have been obtained by peaceful means that's sheer make believe.  When the Civil Rights Movement looked as though they might be making a small bit of progress toward Equality for the Catholic nationalist community Gusty Spence an ex British soldier formed the UVF and carried out Black Flag bombings of infrastructure in an attempt to blame the IRA which was inactive at the time.

The B specials attacked Civil Rights protestors a significant number of whom were protestants who simply wanted justice for their neighbours.

This occurred as a reaction to a request for Equality the chance of a reunited Ireland being achieved by peaceful means under those circumstances was nil.

The GFA came about as a direct result of the Troubles and it is that which will eventually bring about a United Ireland. The DUP are doing their scorpion on a frogs back cameo to try and put the voters in the Republic off but it won't work.

The majority of my family live in the Republic and I have old school and college friends there also. I've been twice this year once for a cousins wedding ( she married an Englishman 🙄 ) and once with my wife, daughter and grandchildren.

The Republic will vote Yes when the time comes. It was supposed to take a couple of generations and may still do, but Brexit threw a spanner in the works.

You three cannot leave it alone can you , just start another thread and lash King and Country out on there , I will no doubt join you 

12 minutes ago, trastrick said:

The roots and causes of the Irish "troubles", like the Middle East "troubles", and the European "troubles" and the Asian "troubles go back hundreds of years.

 

If we don't accept the realities of the present, and move on from there, it can never end well.

We once had the   French ,  Roman and Viking troubles ,so we have been invaded despite people saying we haven’t, 

But it’s left us with a good blood line so far and good roads .

[trastrick]

18 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

People need to be left alone to get on with their lives without foreign interference and that applies not only to NI,   but throughout this world.  We need peace and co-operation and not war.

Lol

 

We all know what we "need" Orgy, but the reality is we have people in this World, who will not allow that to happen.

 

Totalitarians, Colonists, Regime Changers, and the like who are bound and determined to make the World, in their own image.

 

Because they believe they know what's best for everyone!

 

It is exemplified here, in microcosm, on these very threads.

 

It can be solved only by diplomacy and co-existence. Good fences make good neighbors,  but some are violently opposed to such solutions.

 

Human nature!

[Anna B]

I watched the BBC news last night, paying particular attention to the section on the war between Israel and Gaza. I only wish I could get a transcript of what was said. It was badly done and totally confusing to the point of misleading. This from the BBC? - Supposedly one of the best sources of information and best reporters in the World?

 

Bad editing or Deliberate obfuscation? I know which I think, but if people are using this as their only source of information, I'm not surprised at the confusion and level of some of the comments on here. Just an example - Same footage of multiple warheads flying overhead to their target said to be, a) from Israel sent into Gaza, then repeated later in same broadcast and said to be, b) from Gaza sent into Israel! Much emphasis on Israeli victims, children etc, much less on victims of mass Gaza bombing casualties etc, which must have had just as many if not more innocent victims. 

 

I know Britain is supposed to be heavily on the side of Israel, but we need to know clearly what's going on and why. Do we want biased media reporting, or simply the truth, so we can make our own minds up? 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Anna B

[hackey lad]

You do know that some of you are spoiling this thread for the others.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Anna B said:

I watched the BBC news last night, paying particular attention to the section on the war between Israel and Gaza. I only wish I could get a transcript of what was said. It was badly done and totally confusing to the point of misleading. This from the BBC? - Supposedly one of the best sources of information and best reporters in the World?

 

Bad editing or Deliberate obfuscation? I know which I think, but if people are using this as their only source of information, I'm not surprised at the confusion and level of some of the comments on here. Just an example - Same footage of multiple warheads flying overhead to their target said to be, a) from Israel sent into Gaza, then repeated later in same broadcast and said to be, b) from Gaza sent into Israel! Much emphasis on Israeli victims, children etc, much less on victims of mass Gaza bombing casualties etc, which must have had just as many if not more innocent victims. 

 

I know Britain is supposed to be heavily on the side of Israel, but we need to know clearly what's going on and why. Do we want biased media reporting, or simply the truth, so we can make our own minds up? 

 

Well said Anna,  I fully agree.    We often have this type of reporting which is meant to lead our thoughts down a particular path and avoid fair comment.

[cuttsie]

16 minutes ago, Anna B said:

I watched the BBC news last night, paying particular attention to the section on the war between Israel and Gaza. I only wish I could get a transcript of what was said. It was badly done and totally confusing to the point of misleading. This from the BBC? - Supposedly one of the best sources of information and best reporters in the World?

 

Bad editing or Deliberate obfuscation? I know which I think, but if people are using this as their only source of information, I'm not surprised at the confusion and level of some of the comments on here. Just an example - Same footage of multiple warheads flying overhead to their target said to be, a) from Israel sent into Gaza, then repeated later in same broadcast and said to be, b) from Gaza sent into Israel! Much emphasis on Israeli victims, children etc, much less on victims of mass Gaza bombing casualties etc, which must have had just as many if not more innocent victims. 

 

I know Britain is supposed to be heavily on the side of Israel, but we need to know clearly what's going on and why. Do we want biased media reporting, or simply the truth, so we can make our own minds up? 

 

 

 

Just watch the Arab news channels who some how think that this latest atrocity that now effects  both sides was started by Israel , On top of that we have the Town Hall mob in our City cheering and dancing at the situation .

Edited October 11, 2023 by cuttsie

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

You three cannot leave it alone can you , just start another thread and lash King and Country out on there , I will no doubt join you 

 

We once had the   French ,  Roman and Viking troubles ,so we have been invaded despite people saying we haven’t,

Nobodies holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read it cuttsie.

With cressida's intervention,  the thread should be back to normal now.

 

I never heard anyone say that we had never been invaded but anyway,  that doesn't change anything.

People who are invaded / oppressed,   tend to fight back.  Anybody who doesn't like that   -   don't invade.

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Organgrinder

[trastrick]

15 hours ago, m williamson said:

Armageddon is prophesised to be the final battle between the forces of good and evil at the end of the world.

Imminent "Armageddon" is a doomsday philosophy used by cults and other snake oil salesmen.

 

There's always a new "Armageddon" to put the fear of God, into the gullible sheep to keep them in line, and malleable to their will. 

 

In their eyes, even the "Armageddon" of World War, can take a back seat to the "Armageddon", of a pandemic, or a change in the weather some 50 years from now.

 

Here's your Leader of the Free World, making that exact point!

 

“Global warming] is the single most existential threat to humanity we have ever faced, including nuclear weapons,” - Joe Biden 

 

And as long as people allow these folks to run the World, they deserve exactly what they get!

 

The good news is, that in a democracy the electorate do have a choice.

 

So, it's possible to vote your way out of the malignant economic chaos and the inevitable slaughter in endless wars.

 

As long as you remain open to the ideas of others. 

 

Peace!