The Yom Kippur War .

[trastrick]

18 hours ago, altus said:

As was pointed out to you ad infinitum, your proposed solution for Ukraine won't work since it relies on Putin abiding by his promises to respect whatever borders are negotiated. He has repeatedly broken such promises in the past and so any such assurances he gives are worthless. Unless you can come up with an effective way of discouraging Russia from invading again in the future, your solution isn't a solution - it just provides an opportunity for Russia to rearm and leaves Ukraine vulnerable to them attacking again later. There is an effective way of discouraging Russia from invading again, it's for Ukraine to join NATO.

In the real World, the superpowers get to decide what is in their own best security interests. That goes for the West, Russia and China.

 

This was well understood by all, from 1945 to the fall of the U.S.S.R.. and accommodations and compromise were made by both sides. Mutual agreements on the levels and placement of nuclear weapons were negotiated and respected, and the World was kept at relative peace during that time. Since the fall of the U.S.S.R, it is the West that has been militarily enforcing its hegemony around the World.  Less so, Russia.

 

So, who is to be "trusted"? 

 

Is it the U.S., with its "Regime Change" doctrines which sees it invading, bombing and occupying sovereign nations all over the planet, in the name of some "liberal rules based World order",  cooked up by liberal think tanks, which is presently calling for "regime change" in Russia, in the name of some religious righteousness?

 

"For God's sake, this man cannot remain in power!" is the current foreign policy of the so-called Leader of the Free World. What could be clearer? Regime change, on steroids.

 

How about Western Europe, currently dominated by Germany once again, with its demonstrated historical invasions of Russia?

 

The fact is you cannot trust any one person, or government of its 4 year average term, except by Internationally enforced Treaties. and mutual accepted boundaries and borders.

 

The only solution for countries on the fault zone of clashing political ideologies, is neutrality. or Internationally enforced partition, like Ireland, India, Korea, Palestine, Cyprus, the Balkans and African States. Even on my Island of Hispaniola between Haiti and Dominican Republic. Europe has many historical Treaties, that have ended wars and kept the peace, to some extent or another.

 

Is it "fair" is it "just", is it "ideal"? 

 

Of course not, but, like democracy. it is better than the alternative, continuous territorial wars, which may invariably escalate to a World War of terrifying proportions,

 

Good fences, mutually respected, make good neighbors. This allows for talks, security agreements, normalization of relationships, trade, and cultural exchanges. The best way we know to keep the peace.

 

Of course, such partition requires respected International imprimatur, of the sort that the United Nations used to have, before they became a just another tool of the global warmers in the West.

 

And that requires Statesmanship, the kind that is sorely missing from today's sad lot of politicians, who are more concerned with hanging on to their jobs, rather than forward looking.

 

But here's the good news. Great Leaders will emerge in troubled times. The bad news is it takes catastrophe before the flock finally cry out for one.

 

Bottom line, if you cannot, or will not accept the fact of co-existence with your enemies, there is no opportunity to change hearts and minds, and we have a situation where only might is right, and all bets are off!

 

Which is where the World stands at this moment in time.

 

Good luck with that!

 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by trastrick

[m williamson]

3 minutes ago, hauxwell said:

There’s also extra police patrols in parts of Gateshead next to Newcastle which has the second largest Jewish community in the country.  They just live a peaceful life and cause no trouble to anyone.  

Actually all though there is a Jewish community in Gateshead  I don't think it's the second largest in the country. I used to think that it was Leeds but just had a look and it's Manchester.

https://eurojewcong.org/communities/united-kingdom/

 

Makes no odds, as you say they are generally speaking a law abiding community and contribute to the country as other decent citizens do.

It's simply not acceptable that innocent people of whatever background aren't allowed to go about their business without threat.

 

There are two sides to every story and that's true here, but while peaceful demonstrations are acceptable in a free country threatening peoples safety can't be allowed.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, trastrick said:

 

Which is where the World sands at this moment in time.

 

A very lot of words to simply say,   your next bottom line up

You do ramble.

.

[hauxwell]

6 minutes ago, m williamson said:

Actually all though there is a Jewish community in Gateshead  I don't think it's the second largest in the country. I used to think that it was Leeds but just had a look and it's Manchester.

https://eurojewcong.org/communities/united-kingdom/

 

Makes no odds, as you say they are generally speaking a law abiding community and contribute to the country as other decent citizens do.

It's simply not acceptable that innocent people of whatever background aren't allowed to go about their business without threat.

 

There are two sides to every story and that's true here, but while peaceful demonstrations are acceptable in a free country threatening peoples safety can't be allowed.

You could be right about it not being the second largest Jewish community in the country.
I was told by someone who works at the Jewish Teaching College in Gateshead that it’s the  second largest Orthodox community outside London. 

[Al Bundy]

26 minutes ago, cressida said:

That's bad,  remember how our and past generations were (are) being blamed for the British Empire which we had no control over,   blameless Jewish families are being subject to the same and they have nothing to do with what is going on in Palestine -  but extremists will have none of it because they want to join in with the terrorism.

Bingo

[trastrick]

16 hours ago, Anna B said:

The same is true of Israel who have broken treaty after treaty, presumably with the full backing of the West, and no comeback.

The Leaders need to be held personally responsible and jailed for failing to uphold the treaty / law. Nobody should be too big and important to break the law and go to war with impunity.

 

If that doesn't happen they need to be in the frontline of their Army fighting alongside their compatriots and at the same risk of death / maiming, not sat up on the hill directing operations from the back.

 

That might focus their minds wonderfully... 

Ah!

 

But the armchair warmongers always know best!  They'll fight to the last foreigner!

 

(They can always change channels, if they get it wrong!)

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, trastrick said:

Ah!

 

But the armchair warmongers always know best!  They'll fight to the last foreigner!

 

(They can always change channels, if they get it wrong!)

 

And there speaks a man who has spent his life,   not on a battlefield,   but in an armchair,  and just advocates surrender.

 

[despritdan]

34 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Couldn't agree more. 

One of the problems is this country is 'duty bound' to support Israel no matter how atrocious their response is. And that's reflected in the news broadcasts etc. which are biased to say the least.

Not supporting Israel's actions does not mean you are supporting Hamas in any way, or are anti-semitic. It means you recognise that this is a complex situation and not simply black and white. There are extremists on both sides who need no encouragement. It needs handling with great care.

 

 

 

I think you're right, neither side is whiter than white and displaying the Israeli flag would trigger off even more of a backlash against Jews by muslims than we're already seeing. Why can't we have a neutral flag that shows sympathy for the innocent victims of war and terrorism whatever their nationality? 

[cuttsie]

7 minutes ago, trastrick said:

Ah!

 

But the armchair warmongers always know best!  They'll fight to the last foreigner!

 

(They can always change channels, if they get it wrong!)

 

All Israeli people are now on the front line Trasty , I mean attending a music festival they were armed to the teeth ,         With a beer .

[RJRB]

Or even both flags in support of the people of both nations who just want to live their lives without the daily threat caused by the militants