Electric Cars. Fact Or Fiction

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11 hours ago, Chekhov said:

On the subject of tax, motorists pay more in tax than the provision of the roads costs, way more.

now add on all the other externalities...

[AndrewC]

12 hours ago, Chekhov said:

I think there is a breakdown in communication here. I am in favour of subsidised public transport, in fact I think the SY bus system should go back to how it was in the late 70s early 80s.

But motorists should be tempted out of their cars, not forced out of them, more carrot and less stick.

 

On the subject of tax, motorists pay more in tax than the provision of the roads costs, way more. Road tax is something and nothing, most is fuel tax and VAT, on the fuel, but also on pretty much everything they buy for their vehicles

First para; agreed.

 

Second para; owning/operating a car does involve a lot of outgoings but there isn't a single cost that isn't pretty much offsetting the impact car use has on society. People tend to massively underestimate the costs to society that motoring inflicts. From the costs of providing infrastructure (publicly funded roads to privately funded car parking spaces), to the impact pollution & congestion have on health & local economies, the taxes and high costs paid by motorists are fair.

 

The misconception is that the impact on local society & economies is low, and so the high costs must be excessive, i.e. 'the poor old motorist being stung'. It needs to be challenged - the costs to society of car use & car dependency are high, so the high costs motorists pay are fair.

[Jack Grey]

Owning your a car is like owning your own home.

 

It's your private space that is yours to do with it how you like

 

I control the air con, the music

 

I don't have strangers sat next to me or inconsiderate ar*eholes

 

I can fit lots of stuff in the boot

 

And it brings me right outside my door

 

Public transport will never be as good as owning your own car

 

And anyone that thinks it is is an idiot or they don't own a car

Edited October 18, 2023 by Jack Grey

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29 minutes ago, Jack Grey said:

Public transport will never be as good as owning your own car

 

And anyone that thinks it is is an idiot or they don't own a car

depends how you look at it.

 

financing and running a car costs £4k/year, we ditched our 2nd car a few years ago = one of the best decisions we ever made.

 

i can meet some friends in a pub, have a few pints, and get a bus home.

 

i never have to remember to book a bus in for it's MOT/service/tyre change.

 

lots of people can't drive - either too young, too old, or health issues. To them, a car would be completely pointless.

 

 

[geared]

When you compare our cities to some of our European neighbours, you realise how poor our public transport offerings are.  The investment, especially outside of London just isn't there. 

 

Politicians are happy to talk about things like the Northern Powerhouse.  But for the most part it's nothing more than hot air.

[Chekhov]

2 hours ago, AndrewC said:

the impact pollution & congestion have on health & local economies

The air in our cities has never been cleaner, I think the negative impact of pollution is overblown. The only reason it has become such a massive issue is because the world is becoming more and more over cautious and risk averse, what happened during Covid was the best example of that.

 

The people who are most affected by congestion are, err, car drivers !

That said, much of the congestion is caused by the attitude that the motorists time is of no concern, unnecessary temporary traffic lights and road closures that go on for far longer than they need to are the best examples of that....

Edited October 18, 2023 by Chekhov

[Cyclunt]

On 16/10/2023 at 11:54, AndrewC said:

Do you have the same sympathy for the many, many people who are already unable to afford to own/run cars? We have spent decades allowing our governments and the car industry to build urban areas and travel habits around the car despite there being millions and millions of people who can't afford to own & operate a car.

 

Many people are forced in to car ownership because of their environment and it simply lands them in debt and/or forces every penny to be spent on the car - a poverty trap.

 

There is this myth that car ownership is for everyone, of all economic demographics, which - to be blunt - has always been a load of rubbish. The electric car age has not just invented that inequality - it's existed for decades.

 

I dont have any sympathy for anyone. We make our own luck in this world. Nobody cares if I eat tonight or if I can afford my heating on, nor do they care if I have toothache. The reason nobody cares is because we live in a society now where everything is somebodys fault, but never thier own. Well its bloody well not everyone elses fault. I give as many "f,s" about someone elses inability to run their own lives as I do about a gofundme page for false legs for injured cockroaches.

[Rockers rule]

Love the first part of this link.

 

Ohio just killed the future of electric cars in America.

 

Enjoy.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/video/webcontent/ohio-just-killed-the-future-of-electric-cars-in-america/vi-zrxInjlb/6C7nQ?provider=yt&vid=d1LyTywDjCI&ocid

[Guest]

On 18/10/2023 at 11:58, Jack Grey said:

Owning your a car is like owning your own home.

 

It's your private space that is yours to do with it how you like

 

I control the air con, the music

 

I don't have strangers sat next to me or inconsiderate ar*eholes

 

I can fit lots of stuff in the boot

 

And it brings me right outside my door

 

Public transport will never be as good as owning your own car

 

And anyone that thinks it is is an idiot or they don't own a car

That's fine but don't complain when you are made to pay for it properly to recoup all societies losses due to your use.

That applies to airplanes too.  By all means enjoy yourself but you are going to have to pay the true cost to the planet.

In the end,  it will be only millionaires, politicians and their friends who can afford it.

They are not going to ban you and cause trouble for themselves  -  they will slowly price you out, bit by bit.

It's got to come.    And the weather will make it come.     And you know it.

A lot of bluster won't save you.  Enjoy it whilst it lasts.

   

[spilldig]

On 18/10/2023 at 12:45, geared said:

When you compare our cities to some of our European neighbours, you realise how poor our public transport offerings are.  The investment, especially outside of London just isn't there. 

 

Politicians are happy to talk about things like the Northern Powerhouse.  But for the most part it's nothing more than hot air.

Thank's for clearing that up geared, I always thought that No 10 said, The Northern Poorhouse.