Immigration Numbers?

[Mister M]

Well we do know that between 2013 - 2016 ambulances were called on 50 out of 110 occasions for "life threatening" situations. So in 50 cases they were responding to "life threatening" situations.

115 incidents from 1 January 2010 to 19 April 2016, including an amputation of a finger, a fractured neck, a crushed hand, and hand, wrist, back and head injuries. Those are serious injuries - not paper cuts. If anyone one of those had happened a responsible employer should undertake a thorough risk assessment (in fact they are probably required to by law).

With those facts in mind, that is an extraordinary number of serious incidents to happen at one workplace. Even if Ashley was a 'successful business man' (not sure why that's relevant to how many serious incidents happened at his workplace) then I would've thought that success was gained on wisdom and business acumen. Maybe his poor reputation had something to do with his workplaces?

Edited December 5, 2023 by Mister M

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Axe said:

This is a sad news story which is relevant to the discussion. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-67622479

Why is this in particular,  relevant to the debate?

It simply tells us what we know  -  that the government has no coherent policy for anything and therefore,  nothing is running as it should.

Why not train English care home staff up,  and pay them the proper rate for the job,  so that we don't need to recruit foreign ones.

This will have the advantage of cutting down on immigration numbers too.

 

[hackey lad]

2 minutes ago, Mister M said:

Well we do know that between 2013 - 2016 ambulances were called on 50 out of 110 occasions for "life threatening" situations. So in 50 cases they were responding to "life threatening" situations.

115 incidents from 1 January 2010 to 19 April 2016, including an amputation of a finger, a fractured neck, a crushed hand, and hand, wrist, back and head injuries. Those are serious injuries - not paper cuts. If anyone one of those had happened a responsible employer should undertake a thorough risk assessment (in fact they are probably required to by law).

With those facts in mind, that is an extraordinary number of serious incidents to happen at one workplace. Even if Ashley was a 'successful business man' (not sure why that's relevant to how many serious incidents happened at his workplace) then I would've thought that success was gained on wisdom and business acumen. Maybe his poor reputation had something to do with his workplaces?

Hand ,wrist ,back and head injuries . Ever bumped your head , ever bent your finger back . They're not serious injuries . Risk assessment is required by law but if workers ignore it and health and safety guidelines ,what do you do ?

3 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Why is this in particular,  relevant to the debate?

It simply tells us what we know  -  that the government has no coherent policy for anything and therefore,  nothing is running as it should.

Why not train English care home staff up,  and pay them the proper rate for the job,  so that we don't need to recruit foreign ones.

This will have the advantage of cutting down on immigration numbers too.

 

What is the proper rate for the job ?

[Mister M]

9 minutes ago, Axe said:

This is a sad news story which is relevant to the discussion. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-67622479

It is relevant. However simply highlighting one sad case of an elderly lady not getting the right care that she needed because of the language problems of the call handler ignores the fact that to my knowledge you haven't highlighted how many people in the NHS or wider social care system have received wonderful treatment, care and support from the many tens of thousands of people from all over the world who have contributed to patient and service user care. 

I think the NHS and social care system would be in a dire place if people from all over the world hadn't come to contribute. 

There is no question there are structural problems particularly in the social care system, and given that many people from overseas have to fill vacancies in the NHS and social care services that simply begs the question why don't people from our own country want to do it?

As someone has and continues to work in the adult social care sector, (and has done for the past 23 years in various roles) I can tell you that although it's incredibly rewarding, intellectually stimulating and interesting, it's also exhausting, often thankless, low paid and low status. 

I'm not aware of any government strategy over the last 13 which has sought to address why British people don't want to work in the wider Social Care sector - perhaps of they had there wouldn't be a pull on the use of foreign workers. Just a thought.

[Axe]

17 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Why is this in particular,  relevant to the debate?

It simply tells us what we know  -  that the government has no coherent policy for anything and therefore,  nothing is running as it should.

Why not train English care home staff up,  and pay them the proper rate for the job,  so that we don't need to recruit foreign ones.

This will have the advantage of cutting down on immigration numbers too.

 

At the moment it is too easy to recruit foreign workers to do jobs English born people should be doing.  Less immigration will force care homes to train English born people to do the work and pay higher wages. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Axe

[Mister M]

11 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

Hand ,wrist ,back and head injuries . Ever bumped your head , ever bent your finger back . They're not serious injuries . Risk assessment is required by law but if workers ignore it and health and safety guidelines ,what do you do ?

 

Yes I have bumped my head and had concussion which can be serious.

You missed out the "life threatening" situations. And the fractured neck and amputations - but no worries, they're merely flesh wounds.

How do you know it was workers who ignored health and safety guidelines? Do you know if the workers were given the PPE, and relevant training? Were the risk assessment regularly updated.

You seem to be wanting to blame the victims for their injuries, absolving the company of any responsibility, and elevating Mike Ashley to some God like status who should be revered for creating some jobs which his ungrateful employees larked about on and got injured.

You should start a campaign to get him put in the House of Lords for services to employee welfare.

5 minutes ago, Axe said:

At the moment it is too easy to recruit foreign workers to do jobs English born people should be doing.  Less immigration will force care homes to train English born people to do the work and pay higher wages. 

How will less immigration force care home to train English born people? You can't force people to have an interest in a line of work.

Some provide a small amount training, but not all. And the reason why the wages are so low is because local authorities have had their budgets slashed, and they're have to operate under compulsory competitive tendering. 

[Axe]

16 minutes ago, Mister M said:

How will less immigration force care home to train English born people? You can't force people to have an interest in a line of work.

Some provide a small amount training, but not all. And the reason why the wages are so low is because local authorities have had their budgets slashed, and they're have to operate under compulsory competitive tendering. 

Because they will have to recruit English born people instead of relying on cheaper foreign labour.  Most care homes are privately owned. 

[The_DADDY]

20 minutes ago, Axe said:

Because they will have to recruit English born people instead of relying on cheaper foreign labour.  Most care homes are privately owned. 

Daughter of dementia sufferer, 91, who died after getting trapped under a stairlift reveals foreign care home staff spoke such little English that they couldn't tell 999 what had happened - and bluntly told her: 'Your mother is dead

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12824897/Daughter-dementia-sufferer-91-left-dark-foreign-care-staff-didnt-speak-good-English-rang-say-mothers-dead-getting-tapped-stairlift.html

[hackey lad]

39 minutes ago, Mister M said:

Yes I have bumped my head and had concussion which can be serious.

You missed out the "life threatening" situations. And the fractured neck and amputations - but no worries, they're merely flesh wounds.

How do you know it was workers who ignored health and safety guidelines? Do you know if the workers were given the PPE, and relevant training? Were the risk assessment regularly updated.

You seem to be wanting to blame the victims for their injuries, absolving the company of any responsibility, and elevating Mike Ashley to some God like status who should be revered for creating some jobs which his ungrateful employees larked about on and got injured.

You should start a campaign to get him put in the House of Lords for services to employee welfare.

How will less immigration force care home to train English born people? You can't force people to have an interest in a line of work.

Some provide a small amount training, but not all. And the reason why the wages are so low is because local authorities have had their budgets slashed, and they're have to operate under compulsory competitive tendering. 

I know some workers ignored health and safety guidelines, that’s why they were sacked. I know some workers phoned for ambulances for minor things that’s why they were sacked. I’m not elevating Ashley to god like status , just pointing out he’s not the devil like some unions  and MPs would like you to believe.

[Mister M]

33 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

I know some workers ignored health and safety guidelines, that’s why they were sacked. I know some workers phoned for ambulances for minor things that’s why they were sacked. I’m not elevating Ashley to god like status , just pointing out he’s not the devil like some unions  and MPs would like you to believe.

Why were there so many life threatening situations, accidents, minimum wage regulations ignored, other basic requirements ignored?