Time For The Uk To Withdraw From The Echr

[Magilla]

17 hours ago, hauxwell said:

It should be decided by the final court of appeal in the UK, not in a foreign country.

That's not what the government is doing, they're trying to bypass the courts entirely.

 

No court, or judge... at all. 🙄

[Anna B]

11 hours ago, Jack Grey said:

8 years is a long way away 

 

We are seeing the rise of populism and right wing politics across the EU and the world

 

The Tories need to go back to their roots because no one wants or can afford a left wing socialist government that is pro mass migration 

Please God, not another 5 years of Tory politics. They're killing people. As for the ECHR, we ordinary people in the UK need all the protection we can get, never mind migrants. I don't trust the Tories an inch to do what's right for the people. They promise much and deliver little. They only protect their rich friends and donors. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Anna B

[Magilla]

UK paid Rwanda an extra £100m for asylum deal:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67656220

The payment was made in April...

 

Rwanda says it would have quit deportation deal if UK ditched human rights laws:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/12/06/rwanda-uk-deportation-deal-international-laws-quit/

 

Oh dear

 

 

[Jack Grey]

The Tories Are killing people?

 

Grow up FFS

 

It was people like you who were screaming that nonsense during COVID 

 

You're not a member of Don't Stop Oil are you?

 

 

9 hours ago, Mister Gee said:

Yet you don’t know how to use a full stop?

Is that the best you can do?

 

When you have nothing to say then just say nothing 🙄

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jack Grey said:

The Tories Are killing people?

 

Grow up FFS

 

It was people like you who were screaming that nonsense during COVID 

 

You're not a member of Don't Stop Oil are you?

 

It's not    "DONT"      stop oil,  silly billy.

 

Swearing is not necessary if you can learn to communicate properly.

[Anna B]

Yes, people are dying because of Tory incompetence and cuts. -

 

Social services has been decimated,

Vulnerable people are not getting the help they desperately need

Old people are not getting the help they desperately need.

People unable to get doctor's appointments in a timely fashion.

Hospital waiting lists are getting longer and longer so people are dying before they get treatment.

Benefits are not enough to eat and heat,

Few things are working right yet it's almost impossible to contact those concerned,

Homelessness is increasing,

Mental health is the worst it's ever been.

Suicide rate is up substantially.

 

That's just for starters...

 

So yes, I'd say people are dying because of Tory incompetence and cuts.

 

 

 

 

[ECCOnoob]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

Yes, people are dying because of Tory incompetence and cuts. -

 

Social services has been decimated,

Vulnerable people are not getting the help they desperately need

Old people are not getting the help they desperately need.

People unable to get doctor's appointments in a timely fashion.

Hospital waiting lists are getting longer and longer so people are dying before they get treatment.

Benefits are not enough to eat and heat,

Few things are working right yet it's almost impossible to contact those concerned,

Homelessness is increasing,

Mental health is the worst it's ever been.

Suicide rate is up substantially.

 

That's just for starters...

 

So yes, I'd say people are dying because of Tory incompetence and cuts.

 

 

 

 

Yes and none of that ever existed when Labour were in charge. 🙄

 

Social services has not "been decimated". It's as flabby and mismanaged and a bottomless money pit as it ever was - just like the NHS.  There's been more money thrown at it over the years than ever before but still it pleads poverty.

 

How about looking at some of the other factors like mismanagement, over spending, wastage, taking it for granted, abuse by its users, not simply just blame the government.

 

People have never been able to get doctor's appointments in a timely fashion. In fact, it's become such a running joke, it's almost a fabric of our society. Lets not forget the private business GP partnerships decide their opening hours and how they allocate appointments.  Remember all the screams of horror from practitioners when they dared to suggest they consider opening late hours or weekends to fit around ordinary people's lives.   GP issues is not a new concept that only existed since the tories took back over.

 

Oh and as for this crap about heating v eating. Do me a favour.... I'm old enough to remember a time when benefits really was the bare minimum.  There were no in work tax credits or food banks or school meal schemes for all kids or breakfast clubs or pound shops or (IMO unjustified) selective discount schemes for certain types of public sector employees. Families coped. My family did just that. They might be argued as middle class now, but they certainly weren't back in the day. I got raised with my parents living literally from paycheck to paycheck. Scraping around to get enough money to put food on the table and pay off whatever rental or tallyman had got to the red final demand stage that week. They still managed to keep going , keeping us warm and clothed and fed. Might have been basic. Might have been nothing more than simple home cooking that was probably recycled two or three times across different meals - but that's how life was. They couldn't go running to the benefits office or demanding food vouchers or expecting the school to feed their offspring three times a day.  I really don't believe it's too many people genuinely in dire straits when even the cheapest of the cheapest shops have got people coming out with bags and trolleys bulging at the seams with an abundance of cheap foreign made, slave wage pay, consumer goods with enough food and supplies that some genuinely poverty nations could survive a month on.

 

In 2023 PIP rates for example increased by 10.1%.   Next year state benefits are set to go up by another 6.7% with state pension going up by 8.5%.   

 

National minimum wage for the majority is currently over £10.40 an hour with next year  increasing to £11.44 an hour.

 

To put that in some real world context, a full time minimum wage low skilled worker would receive an equivalent of an annual salary of over £22k or about £1,600 a month after tax.  That's going to be the absolute minimum wage for anyone over 21 and people dare plead poverty???   I don't know how they can keep a straight face.

 

Neither am I buying into your doommongering about how everything is "broken".  You raise it as if it's so widely accepted it's beyond debate but I honestly do not know what you are seeing. In this country right now... the street lights are still on, the water is still flowing, the hospitals are still running, the infrastructure still running (give or take the strike interruptions from self-important unions and their greedy unrealistic members), people driving their cars around, the majority of us are not constantly getting burgled or stabbed or attacked every time we leave the house, we are not living in constant fear of being blown up or shelled or invaded by our neighbouring nations, will still are able to travel for tourism and business, our financial and technology sectors are still key players on the global stage, we are still relevant and prominent in global politics, the shops are still stocked up, we are still reaping the rewards of foreign labour and cheap imports, employment is still healthy, people are still going out socialising and doing leisure activities......What exactly is this picture of doom?   What exactly so broken in your opinion and is it any "worse" than the peaks and troughs faced throughout society, throughout the world and throughout every generation.

 

Some people really need to give their head a wobble. Drag themselves back into reality. There is too much over simplistic politicising from certain types of people and far far too much of this black and white mentality that everything is X's fault and it will be all so perfect if only Y gets a chance to take over. It's nonsense. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by ECCOnoob

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ECCOnoob said:

Yes and none of that ever existed when Labour were in charge. 🙄

 

Social services has not "been decimated". It's as flabby and mismanaged and a bottomless money pit as it ever was - just like the NHS.  There's been more money thrown at it over the years than ever before but still it pleads poverty.

 

How about looking at some of the other factors like mismanagement, over spending, wastage, taking it for granted, abuse by its users, not simply just blame the government.

 

People have never been able to get doctor's appointments in a timely fashion. In fact, it's become such a running joke, it's almost a fabric of our society. Lets not forget the private business GP partnerships decide their opening hours and how they allocate appointments.  Remember all the screams of horror from practitioners when they dared to suggest they consider opening late hours or weekends to fit around ordinary people's lives.   GP issues is not a new concept that only existed since the tories took back over.

 

Oh and as for this crap about heating v eating. Do me a favour.... I'm old enough to remember a time when benefits really was the bare minimum.  There were no in work tax credits or food banks or school meal schemes for all kids or breakfast clubs or pound shops or (IMO unjustified) selective discount schemes for certain types of public sector employees. Families coped. My family did just that. They might be argued as middle class now, but they certainly weren't back in the day. I got raised with my parents living literally from paycheck to paycheck. Scraping around to get enough money to put food on the table and pay off whatever rental or tallyman had got to the red final demand stage that week. They still managed to keep going , keeping us warm and clothed and fed. Might have been basic. Might have been nothing more than simple home cooking that was probably recycled two or three times across different meals - but that's how life was. They couldn't go running to the benefits office or demanding food vouchers or expecting the school to feed their offspring three times a day.  I really don't believe it's too many people genuinely in dire straits when even the cheapest of the cheapest shops have got people coming out with bags and trolleys bulging at the seams with an abundance of cheap foreign made, slave wage pay, consumer goods with enough food and supplies that some genuinely poverty nations could survive a month on.

 

In 2023 PIP rates for example increased by 10.1%.   Next year state benefits are set to go up by another 6.7% with state pension going up by 8.5%.   

 

National minimum wage for the majority is currently over £10.40 an hour with next year  increasing to £11.44 an hour.

 

To put that in some real world context, a full time minimum wage low skilled worker would receive an equivalent of an annual salary of over £22k or about £1,600 a month after tax.  That's going to be the absolute minimum wage for anyone over 21 and people dare plead poverty???   I don't know how they can keep a straight face.

 

Neither am I buying into your doommongering about how everything is "broken".  You raise it as if it's so widely accepted it's beyond debate but I honestly do not know what you are seeing. In this country right now... the street lights are still on, the water is still flowing, the hospitals are still running, the infrastructure still running (give or take the strike interruptions from self-important unions and their greedy unrealistic members), people driving their cars around, the majority of us are not constantly getting burgled or stabbed or attacked every time we leave the house, we are not living in constant fear of being blown up or shelled or invaded by our neighbouring nations, will still are able to travel for tourism and business, our financial and technology sectors are still key players on the global stage, we are still relevant and prominent in global politics, the shops are still stocked up, we are still reaping the rewards of foreign labour and cheap imports, employment is still healthy, people are still going out socialising and doing leisure activities......What exactly is this picture of doom?   What exactly so broken in your opinion and is it any "worse" than the peaks and troughs faced throughout society, throughout the world and throughout every generation.

 

Some people really need to give their head a wobble. Drag themselves back into reality. There is too much over simplistic politicising from certain types of people and far far too much of this black and white mentality that everything is X's fault and it will be all so perfect if only Y gets a chance to take over. It's nonsense. 

What a load of complete rubbish.

[Al Bundy]

Can't wait for Labour to win the election.

 

No one will be poor and everything will be great.

 

Looking forward to it.

[ECCOnoob]

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

What a load of complete rubbish.

Well that's a well thought out and detailed counter argument. 

 

You keep doing you.  Everything the evil tories fault and all that.....