Migrant Dead.

[cressida]

Just a straightforward question,  asylum seeking to me is for people in countries where prisoners are tortured,  persecuted  - how is that all thousands of migrants who have arrived are free,  well-dressed, fit,  and must have paid a great deal of money to get here, are representative,  they don't fit the bill -  how are they checked to ascertain if they are in fear of their lives for example?

Edited December 20, 2023 by cressida

[hackey lad]

7 minutes ago, cressida said:

Just a straightforward question,  asylum seeking to me is for people in countries where prisoners are tortured,  persecuted  - how is that all thousands of migrants who have arrived are free,  well-dressed, fit,  and must have paid a great deal of money to get here, are representative,  they don't fit the bill -  how are they checked to ascertain if they are in fear of their lives for example?

And are young males .

[El Cid]

7 minutes ago, cressida said:

Just a straightforward question,  asylum seeking to me is for people in countries where prisoners are tortured,  persecuted  - how is that all thousands of migrants who have arrived are free,  well-dressed, fit,  and must have paid a great deal of money to get here, are representative,  they don't fit the bill -  how are they checked to ascertain if they are in fear of their lives for example?

As opposed to obese and unhealthy?

[Delayed]

5 minutes ago, cressida said:

Just a straightforward question,  asylum seeking to me is for people in countries where prisoners are tortured,  persecuted  -

 

Not just that. The refugee convention doesn't specify asylum for fleeing war only. 

 

Anyone can claim asylum if they are in fear of their life, persecution, violence, threats of violence from their government or NSAs etc. 

 

Which is why people can claim asylum if they are homosexual and fleeing a country where homosexuality is illegal. 

5 minutes ago, cressida said:

how is that all thousands of migrants who have arrived are free,  well-dressed, fit,  and must have paid a great deal of money to get here, are representative,  they don't fit the bill-

How can you say that is true for everyone arriving here? 

5 minutes ago, cressida said:

how do check them to ascertain if they are in fear of their lives for example?

Interviews, background checks, Home Office staff based in those countries and gov information on each country. 

[cressida]

How can you say that is true for everyone arriving here? 

 

I've not seen anyone arrive poorly dressed,  and there are photos everywhere,  in the papers on the news.

I just want to know how the system works and how it can be bettered.

[The_DADDY]

3 minutes ago, cressida said:

How can you say that is true for everyone arriving here? 

 

I've not seen anyone arrive poorly dressed,  and there are photos everywhere,  in the papers on the news.

I just want to know how the system works and how it can be bettered.

There are those who believe these 'migrants' are infact an Invading army. This is why the government has no real intention of dealing with the migrant crisis because it's what they (the government) want and this is why they are almost all young fit fighting age men.

[Delayed]

11 minutes ago, cressida said:

How can you say that is true for everyone arriving here? 

I'm not. I'm saying that assumptions shouldn't be made one way or the other. 

Quote

I've not seen anyone arrive poorly dressed,  and there are photos everywhere,  in the papers on the news.

Seeking asylum isn't based on how poorly people look. Again, they don't have to be fleeing war to claim asylum. 

Quote

I just want to know how the system works and how it can be bettered.

I'm happy to advise where people want to listen. 

 

Thank you for your honest question 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Delayed

[pfifes]

5 hours ago, Delayed said:

I'm not. I'm saying that assumptions shouldn't be made one way or the other. 

Seeking asylum isn't based on how poorly people look. Again, they don't have to be fleeing war to claim asylum. 

I'm happy to advise where people want to listen. 

 

Thank you for your honest question 

Now, I’m not saying this is right or wrong but simply going to give an explanation.

 

Some people are concerned when they see what appears to boatloads of young men arriving.  These young men appear clean, well nourished, dressed in clothes in good condition and in ‘good spirits’ shall we say. The concerned people feel that those who are apparently fleeing war or persecution might perhaps also include other demographics not just young men. They also feel that after fleeing in desperation such appalling circumstances they might not have been able to shower, put some new clean clothes on and eat some good food. I’m sure people would accept that not every single asylum seeker would appear dirty, thin and desperate looking but they become suspicious when they never see this in the news.

 

Now you say, ‘so what’.  Asylum seekers don’t have to fit a stereotype and they should all be welcomed.  
 

OK.  But can I ask genuinely and politely, do you believe there should be unlimited numbers allowed to seek asylum here?  If so, there are many different concerns;  housing, healthcare, education etc.  Can you detail further where the asylum seekers are going to live if there is no restriction on numbers?  Again, remember I’m not saying they shouldn’t be allowed in, I’m just asking you address people’s concerns about where they will all live a small country with a housing crisis.

 

The point I’m trying to address is that those supporting asylum seekers need to better explain the issues I’ve raised rather than simply reiterating their moral standpoint and the legalities of asylum seeking.  

[Delayed]

7 hours ago, pfifes said:

Now, I’m not saying this is right or wrong but simply going to give an explanation.

 

Some people are concerned when they see what appears to boatloads of young men arriving.

Understandable

7 hours ago, pfifes said:

 

 

 

 These young men appear clean, well nourished, dressed in clothes in good condition and in ‘good spirits’ shall we say.

Agreed but the media are only focusing on the men to ignite a reaction.  The small boat arrivals are not arriving with a travel case in tow and if I was anyone on that boat I'd be in good spirits having arrived on shore safely where others have drowned making the same journey.

7 hours ago, pfifes said:

 

 

The concerned people feel that those who are apparently fleeing war or persecution might perhaps also include other demographics not just young men.

 

They do but its not widely reported in the media 

7 hours ago, pfifes said:

They also feel that after fleeing in desperation such appalling circumstances they might not have been able to shower, put some new clean clothes on and eat some good food.

Even France provides basic needs for people looking to move onto the UK

 

7 hours ago, pfifes said:

I’m sure people would accept that not every single asylum seeker would appear dirty, thin and desperate looking but they become suspicious when they never see this in the news.

Because the news don't report on these types of people.  It doesn't generate anger.

7 hours ago, pfifes said:

Now you say, ‘so what’.  Asylum seekers don’t have to fit a stereotype and they should all be welcomed.

 

I'm not saying that.  I'm saying that people arriving shouldn't all be viewed the same.  And I'm not saying they should all be welcomed.  I'm saying that they should not all be viewed the same and needing to be immediately stopped.  

7 hours ago, pfifes said:

 

 OK.  But can I ask genuinely and politely, do you believe there should be unlimited numbers allowed to seek asylum here?  I

 

Yes there should be unlimited numbers allowed to claim asylum.  This is my view but also the view of countless other countries because there are no limitations imposed for those seeking asylum.  Note the distinction between those 'Seeking' asylum and those 'failing' asylum.  

7 hours ago, pfifes said:

f so, there are many different concerns;  housing, healthcare, education etc.  Can you detail further where the asylum seekers are going to live if there is no restriction on numbers?  Again, remember I’m not saying they shouldn’t be allowed in, I’m just asking you address people’s concerns about where they will all live a small country with a housing crisis.

Well, this is the problem the UK is facing.  We have to provide accommodation until their asylum claim is decided.  Which is why we're scrambling around for Hotels, Council Housing, RAF Bases etc.

 

The solution then is not to throw money at stopping people arriving or seeking anywhere with a roof and running water.  But throw money at staffing the Home Office in all areas so that people arriving and having their asylum, appeals refused are then quickly put through the system, so that they are removed from the UK, thereby freeing up more space for housing, healthcare etc.

7 hours ago, pfifes said:

 

The point I’m trying to address is that those supporting asylum seekers need to better explain the issues I’ve raised rather than simply reiterating their moral standpoint and the legalities of asylum seeking.  

As above.  

 

I understand peoples concerns about the sustainability of the overall system.  However, I take issue with some posters stance with rhetoric like 'send them all back',  'stop all the boats',  they shouldn't be allowed to claim asylum until they've paid into the system etc.   

[pfifes]

1 hour ago, Delayed said:

Understandable

Agreed but the media are only focusing on the men to ignite a reaction.  The small boat arrivals are not arriving with a travel case in tow and if I was anyone on that boat I'd be in good spirits having arrived on shore safely where others have drowned making the same journey.

They do but its not widely reported in the media 

Even France provides basic needs for people looking to move onto the UK

 

Because the news don't report on these types of people.  It doesn't generate anger.

I'm not saying that.  I'm saying that people arriving shouldn't all be viewed the same.  And I'm not saying they should all be welcomed.  I'm saying that they should not all be viewed the same and needing to be immediately stopped.  

Yes there should be unlimited numbers allowed to claim asylum.  

 

I understand peoples concerns about the sustainability of the overall system.  However, I take issue with some posters stance with rhetoric like 'send them all back',  'stop all the boats',  they shouldn't be allowed to claim asylum until they've paid into the system etc.   

Wow.  I haven’t got all day to respond to all that but a few points to pick up on for now:

 

‘Even France provides basic needs for people looking to move onto the UK’

What do you mean by ‘even France’?  Is France not a a first world country any more?  Is a bad place to be?

 

Next, how on earth can we support ‘unlimited’ asylum seekers?  Regardless of moral/ethical beliefs how can we support that without our infrastructure collapsing?  Seriously.  I understand that in a blue sky scenario many want to help everyone they can but surely to goodness you don’t actually believe that’s possible.  Surely I don’t have to explain the logistics and cost of this.  
 

Now I’m not someone who lumps all asylum seekers into a stereotype and asks for them all to be sent back.  But neither am I away with the fairies idealist who thinks every small boat arrival should be welcomed with open arms.