Has Hamas/Israel Started A Very Serious Conflict?

[The_DADDY]

4 minutes ago, mafya said:

I also posted the links again a few hours after they were deleted and they went missing again!!

I reposted the links again a few hours later and they again went missing.

I've no idea what was removed and why but you can't assume a bias from that in my opinion. 

15 minutes ago, mafya said:

Turning off water, limiting aid, food and medicines, bombing hospitals etc etc

Lasers around the world are saying it is genocide so how can you even have the audacity to say it isn’t? 🙄

My it’s to you with links were deleted they didn’t contain any bad language just links so why were they deleted?

The links were of the Israeli generals son and another one about why Hamas attacked when it did plus a couple of videos of Palestinians denouncing Hamas.

i never put a single swear word in any of the posts and was not in an argument with anyone so there is no valid reason for the posts to be deleted

You're probably better off asking her why, it's clearly bothering you. You can't pm her anymore but you can tag her in the thread or use the help desk?

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

That is because  genocide is  not being committed as has been explained to you in post 61 . Are you saying that others cannot have or give their own point of view because it goes against yours .

WRONG     Your explanation in post 61 means nothing because you made it up yourself.

There is no proviso that they must not have attacked them  -  only that unarmed civilians are being killed.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/01/1145742

 

THIS IS FROM THE UNITED NATIONS GENOCIDE CONVENTION  below.

 

Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people^[a] in whole or in part.

In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.

 

Prohibited acts

The Genocide Convention establishes five prohibited acts that, when committed with the requisite intent, amount to genocide. Genocide is not just defined as wide scale massacre-style killings that are visible and well-documented. International law recognizes a broad range of forms of violence in which the crime of genocide can be enacted.^[

26 minutes ago, mafya said:

Turning off water, limiting aid, food and medicines, bombing hospitals etc etc

Lasers around the world are saying it is genocide so how can you even have the audacity to say it isn’t?

You are perfectly correct mafya and you will see that I have reproduced part of the UN Genocide Convention as there are many facets involved, which I have marked in red.

The problem is that some posters such as cuttsie,  are only guessing at what genocide is,  and guessing wrongly.

[mafya]

1 hour ago, The_DADDY said:

I've no idea what was removed and why but you can't assume a bias from that in my opinion. 

You're probably better off asking her why, it's clearly bothering you. You can't pm her anymore but you can tag her in the thread or use the help desk?

I posted the links to give others a bit more insight into the situation as we are always being fed bull**** by our govt not only about this conflict but Russia and others to in the past.

Nobody knows everything so any information is good to give people a better understanding of the situation.

Yes Hamas carried out a despicable act and rightly deserve condemnation but at the same time that is not justification for the unlawful acts now being carried out.

Anyway did you manage to watch those programs on Al Jazeera that I mentioned?

[peak4]

Whilst he isn't always my favourite commentator, and he does post some odd things, in my opinion , Craig Murray has done well in his reporting of the recent ICJ Hearings.
Organgrinder has provided links to some relevant stuff a few posts above this one, regarding The Genocide Convention;
N.B. Genocide itself is a legal definition, and not one we can interpret in ways of our own choosing, unlike some posters on here and elsewhere.

Craig Murray was one of only a few people allowed into the court for both days of the sittings;
His reports can be found at the links below.
There's lots of preamble but he does observe and relate what actually happened in the courtroom, and adds some context

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/01/your-man-in-the-hague-in-a-good-way/  The South African case

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/01/your-man-in-the-hague-in-a-good-way-part-2/ The Israeli Defence

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/01/has-international-law-survived-or-has-the-western-political-class-killed-it/ The court's findings

See also the formal documentation from the ICJ itself
https://www.icj-cij.org/case/192

One thing I found notable personally, was that the UK broadcast media barely covered Day1 of the SA case, but gave wide publicity for Day2; AlJazeera English being a notable exception.

Owen Jones isn't one of my preferred sources of reference, but the following exchange isn't about him, its about;

Raz Segal - an Israeli associate professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Stockton University in the US.

 

 

For a longer exploration of the topic see this Youtube link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXjl2uXa220https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXjl2uXa220

 

Edited February 1 by peak4

[mafya]

2 hours ago, peak4 said:

Whilst he isn't always my favourite commentator, and he does post some odd things, in my opinion , Craig Murray has done well in his reporting of the recent ICJ Hearings.
Organgrinder has provided links to some relevant stuff a few posts above this one, regarding The Genocide Convention;
N.B. Genocide itself is a legal definition, and not one we can interpret in ways of our own choosing, unlike some posters on here and elsewhere.

Craig Murray was one of only a few people allowed into the court for both days of the sittings;
His reports can be found at the links below.
There's lots of preamble but he does observe and relate what actually happened in the courtroom, and adds some context

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/01/your-man-in-the-hague-in-a-good-way/  The South African case

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/01/your-man-in-the-hague-in-a-good-way-part-2/ The Israeli Defence

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/01/has-international-law-survived-or-has-the-western-political-class-killed-it/ The court's findings

See also the formal documentation from the ICJ itself
https://www.icj-cij.org/case/192

One thing I found notable personally, was that the UK broadcast media barely covered Day1 of the SA case, but gave wide publicity for Day2; AlJazeera English being a notable exception.

Owen Jones isn't one of my preferred sources of reference, but the following exchange isn't about him, its about;

Raz Segal - an Israeli associate professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Stockton University in the US.

 

 

For a longer exploration of the topic see this Youtube link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXjl2uXa220https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXjl2uXa220

 

All I will say is this information proves what all decent people know and that is that Israel is committing Genocide on the Palestinian people and the countries supporting them including the UK are also complicit.

The video of the  Israeli associate Professor of Holocaust and Genocide studies at Stockton  University in the US is the evidence from a person who is well educated about these matters that proves everyone who said it was Genocide were right.

Thank you Peak4 for bringing this information onto the forum  and I’m hoping it may actually enlighten a few people to what is really going on.

[Axe]

9 hours ago, The_DADDY said:

Post #60⬆️

My bold.

Or she could have been acknowledging Axe for thanking her?

Post#60 contained two quotes which were merged to one post.  It is obvious that SFBeca was acknowledging my comment towards her rather than supporting my opinion that Israel is not committing genocide.  mafya needs to calm down and think more before making contributions in anger.

[cuttsie]

9 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

WRONG     Your explanation in post 61 means nothing because you made it up yourself.

There is no proviso that they must not have attacked them  -  only that unarmed civilians are being killed.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/01/1145742

 

THIS IS FROM THE UNITED NATIONS GENOCIDE CONVENTION  below.

 

Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people^[a] in whole or in part.

In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.

 

Prohibited acts

The Genocide Convention establishes five prohibited acts that, when committed with the requisite intent, amount to genocide. Genocide is not just defined as wide scale massacre-style killings that are visible and well-documented. International law recognizes a broad range of forms of violence in which the crime of genocide can be enacted.^[

You are perfectly correct mafya and you will see that I have reproduced part of the UN Genocide Convention as there are many facets involved, which I have marked in red.

The problem is that some posters such as cuttsie,  are only guessing at what genocide is,  and guessing wrongly.

Yes you are right ,your copying is impressive and explains why Israel and the Jews living there are under the threat of genocide from the millions of Muslim and Arab states that surround them ,, Make comments as to their complete destruction .

Oh wait a minute I have made it all up again ,    I really should learn to copy and paste other peoples thoughts should'nt  I 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, cuttsie said:

Yes you are right ,your copying is impressive and explains why Israel and the Jews living there are under the threat of genocide from the millions of Muslim and Arab states that surround them ,, Make comments as to their complete destruction .

Oh wait a minute I have made it all up again ,    I really should learn to copy and paste other peoples thoughts should'nt  I 

When you copy from what someone else wrote,  you don't seem to realise that you should copy AS IT IS and do NOT add little bits of your own.

We are discussing ACTUAL GENOCIDE and not the THREAT OF GENOCIDE as you claim.    The court has already looked at the facts and decided that Israel is indeed committing Genocide

If the Jews were living under the threat of Genocide as you claim,  they could easily go to the court to get it stopped.

The court decided that Israel is not only committing Genocide  but they DO NOT have the right to self defence because they are an occupying power who are illegally occupying Palestine.

That means that America and UK can not use that excuse to let Israel break International law and we are also complicit by supplying arms and supporting  Israel.

Yes,  you do make a lot of stuff up in your attempt to support the Israeli's as they break International Law with each day that passes.   You should learn to THINK.

 

[Al Bundy]

1 hour ago, Axe said:

Post#60 contained two quotes which were merged to one post.  It is obvious that SFBeca was acknowledging my comment towards her rather than supporting my opinion that Israel is not committing genocide.  mafya needs to calm down and think more before making contributions in anger.

Only those with an agenda or of those with a blinkered view would have not realised that.

[RJRB]

30 minutes ago, Al Bundy said:

Only those with an agenda or of those with a blinkered view would have not realised that.

That covers many on here