Has Hamas/Israel Started A Very Serious Conflict?

[peak4]

An article by Jon Schwarz offered as an exploration of some of the issues.
All the Times Israel Has Rejected Peace With Palestinians; Israel prefers endless conflict to a Palestinian state.

Lost Opportunities With Hamas
In the U.S., Hamas is considered anathema, for understandable reasons. Its original 1988 charter  is explicitly antisemitic and calls for the obliteration of Israel.
(A new Hamas charter was issued in 2017 and states that “Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion.”)

However, there have long been clear signs that factions within Hamas were moderating and open to long-term agreements with Israel.
In 1997, Khaled Mashal, then the top Hamas leader, offered a 30-year ceasefire to Israel. Israel did not respond — but did immediately try to assassinate Mashal in Jordan.

In 2004, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, Hamas’s chief religious leader, called for a 10-year truce with Israel if it returned to its pre-1967 borders. Israel assassinated him two months later.

From both of the previous links, it can be seen that the words "'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it" , as proffered by Al Bundy, occur in the 1988 charter, but not the later 2017 version"
I'm not writing in favour of either version, just offering historical accuracy (as far as I can tell anyway).

A bit further on in the article
"In 2012, according to an Israeli peace activist, the head of Hamas’s military wing had become convinced that Palestinians should negotiate a long-term truce with Israel.
On the same day Ahmed Jabari, Hamas’s military chief, was reviewing a draft proposal for such a truce, Israel assassinated him."

 

None of the above is an attempt to defend Hamas, recognised in the UK as a terrorist organisation, but unless one can begin to understand what's happened, one can never come to a peaceful resolution.

Another article by a Jewish/American historian, Zachary Foster, sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians; again not seeking justification, just explaining some history
Originally on Twitter, but rolled up here for those without an account

 

"In 1948, Ahmed Yassin, who founded Hamas, was uprooted & ethnically cleansed from his home at age 12.
In 1973, he founded an Islamic charity in Gaza focused on education, social services, preaching, youth sports, cultural activities & social services for the poor & orphans."

 

I'm absolutely no historian, but I'd suggest all of the above should be viewed in the context of The Deir Yassin massacre

Testimonies From the Censored Deir Yassin Massacre: 'They Piled Bodies and Burned Them Link to a Haaretz article via archive.is to aviod the paywall
A young fellow tied to a tree and set on fire. A woman and an old man shot in back. Girls lined up against a wall and shot with a submachine gun. The testimonies collected by filmmaker Neta Shoshani about the massacre in Deir Yassin are difficult to process even 70 years after the fact

 

Look up the testimonies by Othman Akell, amongst others I'll not include the video itself here.

 

 

27 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

Truth hurts , maybe they just like chopping babbbys up , will that do .

 

[Al Bundy]

35 minutes ago, mafya said:

They changed their charter  and removed the destruction of Israel bit so it would help if you trotted out up to date information 

I can’t be arsed debating with idiots so I will leave you to continue supporting Genocide…

Ah, right.

 

I always believe terrorists, honest bunch of lads.

 

🙄🙄

 

They must absolutely love folk like you, whilst laughing at you at the same time for being so gullible, no offence mind.

 

👍

 

 

Edited January 30 by Al Bundy

[steve68]

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

Completely wrong  -  that was scrubbed and you have already been told but,  refuse to accept it and insist on repeating a lie.

  Why do you not agree with sticking to laws ?

Despite the watered down 2017 charter.  Unfortunately the 1988 charter has yet to be revoked by Hamas and they know they wont.

 

I Should really have said cant, due to its popularity amongst Hamas hardliners.

Edited January 30 by steve68

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

I ampt got a wife 

I dont have a wife , Stop posting crap .

I'm sorry,  I honestly thought you did have a wife or I wouldn't have dreamed of saying that  -  My sincere apologies.

Apart from that mistake,  everything I write is very much NOT CRAP and everything I say can be proved. 

 

12 minutes ago, steve68 said:

Despite the watered down 2017 charter.  Unfortunately the 1988 charter has yet to be revoked by Hamas and they know they wont.

 

I Should really have said cant, due to its popularity amongst Hamas hardliners.

In that case,  it looks very much as if they will fight to the death then  or  cause a world war because America and UK  cannot keep our noses out of the middle east.

 

[The_DADDY]

Interesting video here.

Could be genuine, could be fake.

 

https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1752358472925003873?t=jhs7x_x7IgaKAB8VGWvH4A&s=19

 

Edited January 30 by The_DADDY

[Axe]

2 hours ago, El Cid said:

Surely they are two countries with a dispute, they are two countries at war, or is your stance its one country unable to control its citizens.

 

2 hours ago, arrowhead said:

Thanks for confirming my suspicion about you! 🤣

 

2 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

No,  I am a peace wisher.  You are obviously a terrorist sympathiser because what Israel are doing is against International Law and tantamount to terrorism.

Time you gave the drink a miss,  looked after yourself and your wife and stopped worrying about world affairs which you can't alter.

How can occupying, bullying and oppressing a neighbouring country for over 70m years be justified ?

 

I have contemp and zero respect for terrorist sympathisers. Enough said.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Al Bundy said:

Ah, right.

 

I always believe terrorists, honest bunch of lads.

 

🙄🙄

 

They must absolutely love folk like you, whilst laughing at you at the same time for being so gullible, no offence mind.

 

👍

 

 

I'm not at all bothered what you believe  -  knowing you are relaxed about Genocide is reason enough for me to stay out of your mind.

I also don't mind if people laugh at me either  -  I try to be a reasonably decent law abiding bloke,   and It's whether I'm happy in my own conscience about what I think,  what I say and what I do.

I don't want to see anyone murder anyone.     If they do,  then it's not with my blessing and my conscience is clear.       If that makes me gullible,  then so be it,  far better than being hateful like you.

[RJRB]

@The_DADDY

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68137050

A somewhat different story in stating that the victims were known terrorists either hiding or being treated in the hospital 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, cuttsie said:

Truth hurts , maybe they just like chopping babbbys up , will that do .

Oh well,  at least they're ensuring that you still get your fun if that's the kind of thing that cheers you up.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Axe said:

 

 

I have contemp and zero respect for terrorist sympathisers. Enough said.

I have contempt,  ( spelled properly )  and disgust, for Genocide lovers and anyone else,  like yourself,   who could agree to,  the murder of  innocent civilians,  especially children,