Changes To Stagecoach Tram Tickets From 22/03/24

[Guest busdriver1]

7 minutes ago, SheffieldForum said:

Does it have to end?

 

Whats wrong with offering free travel to anyone with an ENCTS?

 

Isn’t it a good thing that Supertram has been doing? Shouldn’t we lead by example? Isn’t the issue with other transport organisers in different regions, rather than the way we do it?

The payments are made from a dedicated fund that is supposed to be ringfenced for BUS travel. I for one would love to see the level of payment made to tram companies compared to bus companies. I will wager they are not the same. it is a very useful and invisible way of propping up a loss making system. NOT what is supposed to be for, but we know how PTE's and councils work.

[Martin C]

52 minutes ago, SheffieldForum said:

Does it have to end?

 

Whats wrong with offering free travel to anyone with an ENCTS?

 

Isn’t it a good thing that Supertram has been doing? Shouldn’t we lead by example? Isn’t the issue with other transport organisers in different regions, rather than the way we do it?

But given that Council Tax (and presumably subsidies to the tram network) increase by 5% year or year why should ENCTS pass holders from Nottingham, Manchester, Birmingham & Croydon enjoy free travel on our tram system whereas our pass holders are not granted reciprocal rights on their networks? We're a gullible soft-touch.

[Annie Bynnol]

7 hours ago, busdriver1 said:

The payments are made from a dedicated fund that is supposed to be ringfenced for BUS travel. I for one would love to see the level of payment made to tram companies compared to bus companies. I will wager they are not the same. it is a very useful and invisible way of propping up a loss making system. NOT what is supposed to be for, but we know how PTE's and councils work.

    The  Government provides money for the ENCTS bus  system to every local government unit in the UK based on population,  usage and other tweaks. None of this fund can be used for anything else.

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     89  Travel Concession Authorities (TCAs). ( County Councils, Unitary Authorities, Passenger Transport Executives and London Boroughs. administer this funding.

    The TCAs are required by law to reimburse bus operators for carrying concessionary passengers. In respect of the mandatory concession, TCAs must reimburse bus operators for all concessionary journeys starting within their boundaries, regardless of where the concessionary passholder making the journey is resident.

    These rules only apply to buses and the Government funding for this is 'ring fenced' by law. 

    Some TCAs offer additional bus concessions as do some bus operators and some combined promotions.

. 

     When it comes to trams and metros outside London, any TCAs can fund 'concessions' if they choose to, Invariably they only allow this funding for their own 66 year old residents. most easily  indicated by their ENCTS bus pass. Some areas issue their own. 

    The contractual arrangements with Stagecoach allowing all English seniors to use Supertram dates from the introduction of mandatory discount   bus fares for seniors. Stagecoach wanted the same 'subsidy' for their tram operation to prevent loss of passengers to buses.. This change in the contract was approved by Government. This applied to the only other two tram operators.at the time. This  pre dates predates ENCTS, and no doubt the Supertram contract continued. The other two operators, not having a legal obligation, have since withdrawn the concession to non-residents and save money and perhaps give to the bus operators.

[SheffieldForum]

I still don’t get the issue from our end here.

 

Surely, we are doing the right thing in our area by offering it to all (I just skimmed the legislation, and the amendments do allow for it to be applied to tram/light rail, at the discretion of the travel authority)?

 

Yes, a reciprocal agreement can be made, but it seems one hasn't and we don't know the reasons for that - but assuming that we're OK with it on our end then maybe we can extrapolate that assumption to it being the other travel authorities that won't agree to it (and the legislation does give scenarios where it wouldn't be allowed, so maybe that comes into play?), so the issue is with the other travel authorities and not our own, surely?

 

But, for me, if somebody is eligible for the concession then let them have it - whether from here or not. Let's lead the way and show the other travel authorities how it should be done.

 

The tit-for-tat of 'well, I can't get it in your area so you can't get it here' just sounds ridiculous and the question should be changed to 'why can't I get it in your area when you can get it in mine?' and aimed at the other authorities.

[SheffieldForum]

9 hours ago, Martin C said:

But given that Council Tax (and presumably subsidies to the tram network) increase by 5% year or year why should ENCTS pass holders from Nottingham, Manchester, Birmingham & Croydon enjoy free travel on our tram system whereas our pass holders are not granted reciprocal rights on their networks? We're a gullible soft-touch.

The ENCTS funding comes centrally from Government I believe, so doesn't come out of Council Tax?

 

"The Government funds this reimbursement as part of the main Revenue Support Grant for local authorities."

[Andy C]

34 minutes ago, SheffieldForum said:

The ENCTS funding comes centrally from Government I believe, so doesn't come out of Council Tax?

 

"The Government funds this reimbursement as part of the main Revenue Support Grant for local authorities."

government provide funding for free bus travel between 0930 and 2300 Monday to Friday and bus travel any time on Saturday, Sundays and bank holidays.

 

Anything above and beyond the above is funded by the local authority, in the case of South Yorkshire local taxpayers fund free tram travel, half price train travel for local residents and free bus & tram travel for disabled pass holders before 0930.

Edited February 21 by Andy C

[Andy C]

2 minutes ago, Andy C said:

government provide funding for free bus travel between 0930 and 2300 Monday to Friday and bus travel any time on Saturday, Sundays and bank holidays.

 

Anything above and beyond the above is funded by the local authority, in the case of South Yorkshire local taxpayers fund free tram travel, half price train travel for local residents and free bus & tram travel for disabled pass holders before 0930.

There is also an issue in some areas where the local authority has to reimburse operators for more free travel than the government provided funding for, this especially impacts areas with plenty of tourists.

[SheffieldForum]

1 hour ago, Andy C said:

government provide funding for free bus travel between 0930 and 2300 Monday to Friday and bus travel any time on Saturday, Sundays and bank holidays.

 

Anything above and beyond the above is funded by the local authority, in the case of South Yorkshire local taxpayers fund free tram travel, half price train travel for local residents and free bus & tram travel for disabled pass holders before 0930.

The way I read it was that the local transport authority can claim back even for tram travel under ENCTS. 
 

Obviously if there is somewhere that says otherwise, I’m happy to be corrected!

 

But also — even if not… what is the issue? Again isn’t our authority doing the right thing with these concessions?

[RollingJ]

1 minute ago, SheffieldForum said:

The way I read it was that the local transport authority can claim back even for tram travel under ENCTS. 
 

Obviously if there is somewhere that says otherwise, I’m happy to be corrected!

 

But also — even if not… what is the issue? Again isn’t our authority doing the right thing with these concessions?

Quite honestly, I have two questions - how many ENCTS pass-holders from outside the area visit us, and why should we fund their travel?

[Annie Bynnol]

4 minutes ago, SheffieldForum said:

The way I read it was that the local transport authority can claim back even for tram travel under ENCTS. 
 

Obviously if there is somewhere that says otherwise, I’m happy to be corrected!

 

But also — even if not… what is the issue? Again isn’t our authority doing the right thing with these concessions?

  What are you "...reading..."?

  I am reading the 'The Concessionary Bus Travel Act 2007' which provides for a statutory guarantee of free off-peak travel for eligible older and disabled people on local bus services anywhere in England. Amendments and revisions created Travel Concession Authorities (TCAs)  who are responsible  for the ENCTS subsidy provided by the Government for bus passengers who qualify by age and disability. Nowhere in the Act is there any mention of other forms of Transport. As has been said there are other bits of funding, legislation and powers that some TCAs  may have that enable a specific subsidy. 

 

   We in Sheffield benefit from a Derbyshire Wayfarer Rover(rail and bus) which any ENCTS holder can get for £7.70 so maybe we should be careful with deals that benefit us.