Lack Of Public Houses On The Moor

[Irene Swaine]

9 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

I suspect the 'old Debenhams' is rather too large for a pub, but if, as has been suggested, it is broken into smaller units...? JD S moved in rather longer ago than 'just recently'.

Yes. A lot of the sadly closed department stores have been broken up in to smaller units, Castle House now Commune and TJ's on High Street now Lidl/Poundland. There is more than enough space on the bottom floor of Debenham's for a large pub. 

[Mister M]

There's Dempsey's, if you don't mind gaudy decor and old carpet stuck to your shoes 

[ECCOnoob]

13 minutes ago, Irene Swaine said:

Yes. A lot of the sadly closed department stores have been broken up in to smaller units, Castle House now Commune and TJ's on High Street now Lidl/Poundland. There is more than enough space on the bottom floor of Debenham's for a large pub. 

Will it be an actual viable business considering the whole area is surrounded by bars and restaurants and venues? 

 

Wetherspoons for example already has 5 venues within less than 1 mile of The Moor location.  The nearest one being about 5 minutes walk away.

 

Stonegate Group has 10 pubs in the city centre already. Greene King has two pubs in the city centre already with again, Frog and Parrott and The Museum being a few minutes walk away from The Moor location.

 

.... That's all before we get onto the masses of independent drinking holes, brew houses, food courts, activity centres, cocktail bars, cafes, chain, restaurants and Hotel lounges.  

[Irene Swaine]

2 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Will it be an actual viable business considering the whole area is surrounded by bars and restaurants and venues? 

If I was the Director of a brand such as Hungry Horse, Greene King or indeed W*th*rsp**n, I'd definitely be looking at one of the units on The Moor. The restaurants nearby are places such as Furness, not somewhere you can get hearty pub food. The Frog & Parrot is not in the city centre and The Museum is a considerable walk away.

 

The Moor is a stage for businesses to present themselves. The footfall outside the market is tremendous. I can envisage plenty of passing trade for a pub, especially with builders etc that hang around The Moor and wouldn't feel comfortable sitting in Furnace in their work wear!

 

 

[Padders]

"Padders Bar" would make an ideal venue.

Unfortunately I haven't got the resources, or staff to make it worthwhile.

[Irene Swaine]

2 minutes ago, Padders said:

"Padders Bar" would make an ideal venue.

Unfortunately I haven't got the resources, or staff to make it worthwhile.

I'd be happy to waitress if I had the time free! 

[Padders]

1 minute ago, Irene Swaine said:

I'd be happy to waitress if I had the time free! 

Waitress, I'd make you bar manager.

[ECCOnoob]

7 minutes ago, Irene Swaine said:

If I was the Director of a brand such as Hungry Horse, Greene King or indeed W*th*rsp**n, I'd definitely be looking at one of the units on The Moor. The restaurants nearby are places such as Furness, not somewhere you can get hearty pub food. The Frog & Parrot is not in the city centre and The Museum is a considerable walk away.

 

The Moor is a stage for businesses to present themselves. The footfall outside the market is tremendous. I can envisage plenty of passing trade for a pub, especially with builders etc that hang around The Moor and wouldn't feel comfortable sitting in Furnace in their work wear!

 

 

Are you off your head?   What the hell do you call city centre?   The museum is not 'miles away' It's about a 10-minute walk.  

 

Also, you are completely ignoring the other points that people have tried to raise.  Firstly, Wetherspoons already has five branches in the city centre.   The nearest one being 0.1 mi away from where you are suggesting.  

 

Also what is this massive demand for 'traditional' pub group as you call it?   Have you not seen the way the market is changing.  Have you not seen the type of venues in demand and opening up everywhere (particularly in city centre locations which generally catering for a much younger and often much more sophisticated crowd).   Have you stopped to think about the logistics and change of use venue permissions and potentially great amounts of conversion costs that may need to be applied for costing great amounts of money?  Large corporations don't get there where they are without thinking long term strategy and looking at the future of how their market is heading. 

 

I'm also curious to know why you automatically assume that there is a stream of people in hard hats and high viz just desperate to pop out for a lunchtime pint. It's not 1965 anymore love. 

 

These days you are just as likely to see them in the queue for the sushi bar or coffee shop. Plus  several corporations, particularly those with heavy HSE regulation and operating of plant machinery have a zero tolerance policy on any drinking during their working hours.

 

I think you are way off the mark.

[Irene Swaine]

10 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Are you off your head?   What the hell do you call city centre?   The museum is not 'miles away' It's about a 10-minute walk.  

 

Also, you are completely ignoring the other points that people have tried to raise.  Firstly, Wetherspoons already has five branches in the city centre.   The nearest one being 0.1 mi away from where you are suggesting.  

 

Also what is this massive demand for 'traditional' pub group as you call it?   Have you not seen the way the market is changing.  Have you not seen the type of venues in demand and opening up everywhere (particularly in city centre locations which generally catering for a much younger and often much more sophisticated crowd).   Have you stopped to think about the logistics and change of use venue permissions and potentially great amounts of conversion costs that may need to be applied for costing great amounts of money?  Large corporations don't get there where they are without thinking long term strategy and looking at the future of how their market is heading. 

 

I'm also curious to know why you automatically assume that there is a stream of people in hard hats and high viz just desperate to pop out for a lunchtime pint. It's not 1965 anymore love. 

 

These days you are just as likely to see them in the queue for the sushi bar or coffee shop. Plus  several corporations, particularly those with heavy HSE regulation and operating of plant machinery have a zero tolerance policy on any drinking during their working hours.

 

I think you are way off the mark.

You could argue that many places have duplicate establishments "10 minute's walk" away. Tesco literally have a store just around the corner from their Fargate branch. You obviously don't understand how supply and demand works or business in general. Opening any business costs money and usually requires cosmetic work to apply the brand image. 

 

Stand on The Moor on any weekday and you will see plenty of labourers, workmen and street cleaners that may want to pop to the pub for their break but may not have time for a "10 minute walk" both ways. There are also impulse buyers on the moor, people on shopping trips who may fancy a glass of wine or people who call in regularly to socialise. 

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if a mainstream bar pops up in the next year or so on there. Your qualification is in law, mine is in business. A lot of these "sophisticated bars" fail in the first year, such as the gin bar that opened on Broomhill. The Museum always attracts a crowd though.

[ECCOnoob]

7 minutes ago, Irene Swaine said:

 

Stand on The Moor on any weekday and you will see plenty of labourers, workmen and street cleaners that may want to pop to the pub for their break but may not have time for a "10 minute walk" both ways. There are also impulse buyers on the moor, people on shopping trips who may fancy a glass of wine or people who call in regularly to socialise. 

They MAY choose one of 101 other venues in the city to go and have that drink or MAY simply not want one at all. 

 

Yes, some of those sophisticated bars have failed but equally plenty of pubs are doing that too. Last year reported a rate of two pubs a week failing and closing down. 

 

Builders & Contractors in their lunch break are doing just that. On their lunch break. It is not conducive to sitting around buying several rounds of beer especially when many of their employers and the sites that they work on will have a zero tolerance on alcohol.   

 

Shoppers already have a selection of refreshments available to them either within the shops themselves or very adjacent. I can't imagine it's going to be vast numbers of them regularly stopping off for beers and wine in the middle of their trips to Primark and Atkinsons. For those who do fancy joining the 'ladies who lunch' brigade enjoying their glasses of fizz whilst they are out buying their frocks, they'll likely be looking for a very different type of venue to a chain pubco, serving pie and mash. 

 

As for the socialising crowd, well they will go to venues for that purpose. There are entire streets filled with bars, clubs, venues for the nights out. Then we have the new food halls, hotels, cinemas, theatres, music venues, kelham island and independent places.  Some of these newer apartment blocks are also contributing as they are built with their own residents communal lounges, pool rooms, hubs which further gives opportunity for groups to be socialising and all with a style, taste and longevity that the next generation are demanding. 

 

Whilst I am not saying that no pub could ever move into such location as Moorfoot, I can't understand why you're also so convinced that a great big chain pub having to spend vast amounts of money on relicensing and renovating a retail unit is automatically going to be successful based on your simple observations of a few workmen and shoppers on the street. Its hardly sound basis for a business plan.  

 

Your comparison with Tesco is flawed. They know that in city centre environments most people shop daily and all human beings need a constant supply of food. They are built specifically nearby masses of residential with small footplates, low staff operations and little service requirements. That is very different to a pub or restaurant. Very few people are going in for drink on a daily basis. No human beings need alcohol to survive. Most pubs have limitations on their flow of footfall with most having to maximise their trade in the evenings and particularly Friday to Sunday. Tesco will get its  shoppers all day and even 24 hours in some places. Pubs have to have significantly more numbers of staff. They need bar staff, service staff, cooks, kitchen porters.  They have the expense of glasses and crockery and cutlery which all has to be washed and processed and put back out. They also have the additional expense of not only selling the food but cooking, plating and serving it on site.

 

You keep up your delusions of your business acumen love. I will take my law degree and 20+ years experience acting for corporations over your college course and experience of a sandwich trolley.