School Fines - Discrimination Against The Family Unit

[Chekhov]

2 minutes ago, RJRB said:

>>Chekhov said:
If you are implying most parents agree with fines you are wrong, as I am sure you know.

But, to authoritarians, this is yet another example of what they love, personal freedoms is of little importance, society should be telling people how to live their lives<<

 

If you are implying that most parents take their children on holiday during term time then you are wrong.

I can quite see that those that do or would like to are united in their dislike of getting fined.

Err no :

 

Do you think parents who take their children out of school during term time to go on a family holiday should or should not be fined?

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/survey-results/daily/2024/03/04/51f36/2

 

Yes - 30%

No - 56%

Don't know - 13%

 

And, let us remind ourselves, nobody has ever voted for this iniquitous and authoritarian policy. 

 

[Chekhov]

14 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Err no :

 

Do you think parents who take their children out of school during term time to go on a family holiday should or should not be fined?

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/survey-results/daily/2024/03/04/51f36/2

 

Yes - 30%

No - 56%

Don't know - 13%

 

And, let us remind ourselves, nobody has ever voted for this iniquitous and authoritarian policy. 

 

So @butlers was wrong then.....

[RJRB]

17 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Err no :

 

Do you think parents who take their children out of school during term time to go on a family holiday should or should not be fined?

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/survey-results/daily/2024/03/04/51f36/2

 

Yes - 30%

No - 56%

Don't know - 13%

 

And, let us remind ourselves, nobody has ever voted for this iniquitous and authoritarian policy. 

 

The fine is there for a purpose.

If the question was do you think drivers should be fined £100 for exceeding the 30 mph speed limit by 4 mph I doubt that there would be overwhelming support from motorists.

There is also a flaw in your logic when comparing  this issue to the school lockdown closures.

Teachers have a syllabus to get through by progression over a term or school year.

If all pupils were absent for a period then measures can be taken to pick up where they left off.

If a number of individual pupils are missing at different times  it would be far more difficult to cater for.

[El Cid]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

How long was he off for and when was it ?

I have heard from more than one source that different schools have different policies, which, BTW, promotes even more ill feeling.

 

I recall it was a week off school, it was around 10 years ago. Schools dont want to irritate the parents of their pupils, they prefer not to issue fines.

I believe many schools turn a blind eye to an extra week off.

At the end of term some go on a rewards trip to Alton Towers, on a school day!

Alton Towers is much less educational than Egypt or S Korea etc.

[pfifes]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

I don't think the fines act as a deterrent, they just **** people off.

There is a bigger point here, yet again we are being told how to live our lives, how we should bring our own kids up. And not just the broad idea "kids must be educated at school" (which few people would disagree with) but down to the minutia. 

The fines in themselves will deter some parents, but not all of course.  I think the ****ing people off is kind of the point though isn’t it?  It’s sending out the message that it’s not considered acceptable.

On the ‘yet again being told his to live our lives point’, I believe you run a business don’t you?  I don’t know how many you employ but would you be happy about a significant proportion of your staff insisting they take their annual leave  during a busy period leaving you understaffed because they don’t want to be told how to live their lives? I’m guessing not, and you have an organised system for booking leave.  Well schools are similar, they can’t have significant numbers of children taking holidays in term time as it’s very disruptive. They have designed school holidays so children have time off at the same time so learning isn’t disrupted.

I do think some schools have taken things a bit too far with attendance but the fines are unfortunately needed to maintain order.  Some people will do whatever the heck they want unless they’re hit in the pocket.

[Resident]

1 hour ago, pfifes said:

The fines in themselves will deter some parents, but not all of course.  I think the ****ing people off is kind of the point though isn’t it?  It’s sending out the message that it’s not considered acceptable.

On the ‘yet again being told his to live our lives point’, I believe you run a business don’t you?  I don’t know how many you employ but would you be happy about a significant proportion of your staff insisting they take their annual leave  during a busy period leaving you understaffed because they don’t want to be told how to live their lives? I’m guessing not, and you have an organised system for booking leave.  Well schools are similar, they can’t have significant numbers of children taking holidays in term time as it’s very disruptive. They have designed school holidays so children have time off at the same time so learning isn’t disrupted.

I do think some schools have taken things a bit too far with attendance but the fines are unfortunately needed to maintain order.  Some people will do whatever the heck they want unless they’re hit in the pocket.

So would you agree that parents and businesses alike should be able to fine teachers over the 9 missed days in 2023 when the teachers and their unions USED OUR CHILDREN'S EDUCATION as a weapon against the government for their own financial gain. Let's not forget the strikes were about pay not standards of education. 

Those strikes negatively impacted parents, through the loss of wages having to stay home and harmed businesses due to missing staff. 

I think at least the fines, because of this, in 2023 should have been suspended. 

[Prettytom]

12 minutes ago, Resident said:

So would you agree that parents and businesses alike should be able to fine teachers over the 9 missed days in 2023 when the teachers and their unions USED OUR CHILDREN'S EDUCATION as a weapon against the government for their own financial gain. Let's not forget the strikes were about pay not standards of education. 

Those strikes negatively impacted parents, through the loss of wages having to stay home and harmed businesses due to missing staff. 

I think at least the fines, because of this, in 2023 should have been suspended. 

Of course, all of the striking teachers were fined a days pay, plus pension benefits, each time they went on strike.

 

If they had been properly remunerated at the time, there wouldn’t have been any need to strike.

[The_DADDY]

23 minutes ago, Resident said:

So would you agree that parents and businesses alike should be able to fine teachers over the 9 missed days in 2023 when the teachers and their unions USED OUR CHILDREN'S EDUCATION as a weapon against the government for their own financial gain. Let's not forget the strikes were about pay not standards of education. 

Those strikes negatively impacted parents, through the loss of wages having to stay home and harmed businesses due to missing staff. 

I think at least the fines, because of this, in 2023 should have been suspended. 

My bold

100% I'd agree with that. 

[Anna B]

I'm an ex teacher, and even I think fining parents for wanting an affordable family holiday is unfair (except during exam time of course.) As long as any missed work is made up in their own time, I don't see it does much harm. Travel broadens the mind and quality family time is important for all sorts of reasons. 

[El Cid]

To answer the original question, it is perhaps a tax on the traditional family, but more important, its a fixed tax on the poor, a tax not paid at private schools.

The wealthy dont care about a £120 fine, but its a lot of money to the poor.