AfD too Nazi for Marine Le Pen

[Vrsaljko]

33 minutes ago, SheffieldForum said:

The Rwanda scheme is, has and always will be a gimmick.

 

There was no mandate for the Rwanda scheme and the battles in parliament and the lords have shown it was controversial and wouldn’t legitimately pass — leading to attempted changes of legislation and challenges in several levels of court.

 

It isn’t, and never has been, a solution to the problem of immigration. It was a headline grabbing publicity stunt gone wrong and deserves to be confined to history, as it will be upon the formation of a new government.

 

You're missing the point. I wasn't saying the Rwanda scheme is a good idea or a bad one. The discussion is about having power, and I was pointing out that even if a government has a big majority it doesn't mean they hold the cards and can do what they like. I was pointing out that controlling the institutions is often more useful.

[The_DADDY]

6 minutes ago, Vrsaljko said:

 

You're missing the point. I wasn't saying the Rwanda scheme is a good idea or a bad one. The discussion is about having power, and I was pointing out that even if a government has a big majority it doesn't mean they hold the cards and can do what they like. I was pointing out that controlling the institutions is often more useful.

My bolds

I thought that was pretty obvious.

I'm surprised anyone misunderstood your point. 

[Al Bundy]

Anyone right of centre is a Nazi and fat right these days

 

.I've said many times, folk are getting brainwashed by the likes of the Guardian into thinking right wing is hard/far right.

 

A day doesn't go by when the mention of Hard/ Far right isn't prominent from the Guardian......just today we have this...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/23/eus-far-right-parties-expel-germanys-afd-from-their-group

 

They are obsessed.

 

[Delbow]

7 hours ago, The_DADDY said:

I agree. The far right have no power or real influence where as the radical left are everywhere. 

 

So it doesn't bother or worry you that a party in Germany that shares an ethos with a party that murdered millions of people less than a century ago is polling in second place in several states?

[butlers]

Makes you wonder just what qualifies as far right in his world.

 

[peak4]

3 hours ago, Al Bundy said:

Anyone right of centre is a Nazi and fat right these days

.I've said many times, folk are getting brainwashed by the likes of the Guardian into thinking right wing is hard/far right.

A day doesn't go by when the mention of Hard/ Far right isn't prominent from the Guardian......just today we have this...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/23/eus-far-right-parties-expel-germanys-afd-from-their-group

They are obsessed.

Surely that story you refer to in The Grauniad is the whole premise for this thread.
It's also covered by other media too
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/23/afd-expelled-from-hard-right-group-in-european-parliament/   Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/22/le-pens-party-cuts-ties-with-germanys-afd-nazi-ss-scandal/  Telegraph - 2

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/germanys-afd-bans-candidate-over-ss-remarks-dtf6rdcjv  Times

https://www.timesofisrael.com/germanys-afd-bars-candidate-from-eu-election-after-his-comments-on-nazi-ss-members/  Times of Israel

Even the Mail & Express refer to AFD as Far Right
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9322065/German-far-right-AfD-party-surveillance-Nazi-era.html   Daily Mail

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1881298/germany-saxony-migration-afd-max-aschenbeck  Daily Express

[L00b]

11 hours ago, Longcol said:

Living in France, it seems that the greatest opposition to Le Pen (and her dad before) is in the areas where the Resistance / Maquis were active in WWII and  Nazi atrocities were committed. War memorial in nearest town lists army, civilian and resistance deaths.

 

About 5 miles from our village is a memorial to a dozen or so locals who were rounded up and gunned down ny the Nazis.

 

Unsurprisingly, Le Pen election posters are ripped down or defaced.

Personal politics of the French tend to be more nuanced than the polarized "if you're not with us you're against us" politics pushed by populists like the LePens, and in more recent years by Trump/Bannon, the AfD and all the others ; but still with hard backstops about extreme politics, borne from long memories of, and about, the German occupation (with, as you note, a higher incidence in areas of France that suffered more than others).

 

Luxemburgers, Alsatians and Mosellans with a family tree stretching back to the 1940s will all still know very well, how Nazi policies affected their elders ; even more the case for those with a family tree stretching back still earlier, whose elders experienced the full force of extreme nationalism  and its logical consequence (1870 war & annexation into 2nd Reich ;  later on WW1 with relatives ending up made to fight against each other). For all the others, the place is not short of memorials and plaques about who resisted, got caught and ended up being beheaded (a popular execution method in Germany for high-profile resistants).

 

Save for some isolated areas with a (locally-) large contingent of recent immigrants attracting  a correspondingly-large xenophobic vote (this area of France has always had large waves of immigrations : today's Centrafrica immigrants, were north African immigrants a generation ago, and Polish and Italians immigrants two generations ago <etc.> : same causes, same effects),  people there, likewise in other regions with a  strong resistance at the time (per Longcol) have long memories and no time for parties with extreme/fascist agendas.

 

LePen senior's Front National party, in its early years (1972 est.) until Marine took it over, was long full of ex-Vichy types, so this explains that. It was also long full of ex-legionnaires types, ex-army types, Catholic ultras, <etc.> and still is. The rebrand away from Front National  noted by peak4 started only in  2018, but it is just that, a rebrand - the family business is still the same : maintain political relevance through populism  to sustain some political power and capacity to attract financial backing, but stay well back from getting elected  into positions that would require getting down to brass tacks and delivering the benefits promised with the snake oil.

 

Hence, if you care to cast your history research far enough back, the regular-as-clockwork major gaffe or outrage, delivered to temporarily kill off political popularity when a LePen is in danger of getting elected 'too high'. Likewise, the weathervane-grade opportunism and whataboutery when external events threaten the current position : to this day, Marine still can't do enough to make those Putin loans , that became so highly-inconvenient in February 2022, disappear from the public eye and consciousness. This just now with the AfD, is simply more of the same.

[Delbow]

Interesting post @L00b

[Ridgewalk]

13 hours ago, Longcol said:

Living in France, it seems that the greatest opposition to Le Pen (and her dad before) is in the areas where the Resistance / Maquis were active in WWII and  Nazi atrocities were committed. War memorial in nearest town lists army, civilian and resistance deaths.

 

About 5 miles from our village is a memorial to a dozen or so locals who were rounded up and gunned down ny the Nazis.

 

Unsurprisingly, Le Pen election posters are ripped down or defaced.

 

 

I would have thought the main opposition to Le Pen was in the bigger cities especially Paris. The RN vote is more of a rural phenomenon.

Jordan Bardela is the one to watch. 

[Delbow]

I was thinking about what someone said about the far right not being in power. That seems a wrong-headed thing to say when we have two extreme right regimes - Israel and Hamas - gleefully murdering children and civilians day in, day out.