Pulling out of your drive then Bang, a cyclist hits you....

[PRESLEY]

13 hours ago, The_DADDY said:

Hypothetical question here. I've searched on Google but found conflicting information.

So, we have a driveway and the public footpath at the end is a shared cycle path. I'm helping the youngun with different situations to hopefully help her become a better/safer driver and the question "Who is at fault if a cyclist hits us whilst we are pulling out of the drive?"

I have a routine I do every time I leave the drive,

1, radio off

2, aircon off

3, both front windows down

4, slowly edge out and leave my drive.

For me this is adequate to ensure I don't hit any of the cyclists and battery scooters riders who whizz past our house but here's the question.

What if whilst partway out of the drive one of them hits the car? 

Who's at fault? I'd say it was the scooter/bike rider.

Would I be wrong in that assumption?

 

Your thoughts?

I would say the Cyclist is at fault.  He is looking forward and should be switched on enough to realize a driveway  is a potential hazzard for several reasons.

[SheffieldForum]

15 hours ago, The_DADDY said:

Hypothetical question here. I've searched on Google but found conflicting information.

So, we have a driveway and the public footpath at the end is a shared cycle path. I'm helping the youngun with different situations to hopefully help her become a better/safer driver and the question "Who is at fault if a cyclist hits us whilst we are pulling out of the drive?"

I have a routine I do every time I leave the drive,

1, radio off

2, aircon off

3, both front windows down

4, slowly edge out and leave my drive.

For me this is adequate to ensure I don't hit any of the cyclists and battery scooters riders who whizz past our house but here's the question.

What if whilst partway out of the drive one of them hits the car? 

Who's at fault? I'd say it was the scooter/bike rider.

Would I be wrong in that assumption?

 

Your thoughts?

 

Sounds like you're mostly doing what you can and acting responsibly.

 

The highway code now says that cyclists largely have priority over vehicles on highways and cycle lanes and does give mention to driveways in that:

 

1 (Highway code 201): Do not reverse from a side road into a main road. When using a driveway, reverse in and drive out if you can.

 

2 (Highway code 202): Look carefully before you start reversing. You should

• use all your mirrors
• check the ‘blind spot’ behind you (the part of the road you cannot see easily in the mirrors)
• check there are no pedestrians (particularly children), cyclists, other road users or obstructions in the road behind you.

Reverse slowly while

• checking all around
• looking mainly through the rear window
• being aware that the front of your vehicle will swing out as you turn.

Get someone to guide you if you cannot see clearly.

 

3 (Highway Code 204): The road users most at risk from road traffic are pedestrians, in particular children, older adults and disabled people, cyclists, horse riders and motorcyclists. It is particularly important to be aware of children, older adults and disabled people, and learner and inexperienced drivers and riders. In any interaction between road users, those who can cause the greatest harm have the greatest responsibility to reduce the danger or threat they pose to others.

 

4 (Highway code 206): Drive carefully and slowly when

• in crowded shopping streets, Home Zones and Quiet Lanes (see Rule 218) or residential areas
• driving past bus and tram stops; pedestrians may emerge suddenly into the road
• passing parked vehicles, especially ice cream vans; children are more interested in ice cream than traffic and may run into the road unexpectedly
• needing to cross a pavement, cycle lane or cycle track; for example, to reach or leave a driveway or private access. Give way to pedestrians on the pavement and cyclists using a cycle lane or cycle track
• reversing into a side road; look all around the vehicle and give way to any pedestrians who may be crossing the road
• turning at road junctions; you should give way to pedestrians who are crossing or waiting to cross the road into which or from which you are turning
• going through road works or when passing roadside rescue and recovery vehicles, as there may be people working in or at the side of the road
• the pavement is closed due to street repairs and pedestrians are directed to use the road
• approaching pedestrians on narrow rural roads without a footway or footpath. Always slow down and be prepared to stop if necessary, giving them plenty of room as you drive past
• approaching zebra and parallel crossings as you MUST give way to pedestrians and cyclists on the crossing (see Rule 195)
• approaching pedestrians who have started to cross the road ahead of you. They have priority when crossing at a junction or side road so you should give way (see Rule H2).

 

Of course, there will always be nuances to any situation, and some people are more irresponsible than others, but for the most part it is your responsibility to ensure a cyclist is not coming rather than a cyclist take avoiding action because of you.

[peak4]

It sound like you're trying to drive, and teach, responsibly.
The mirror is a reasonable assistance, and shouldn't cause a problem with focusing sunlight, as you would use a convex, rather than concave one.
A bigger problem might be theft/vandalism, depending on where you live.
Personally, where there is restricted vision across a footway like you have, I tend to very slowly pull about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way out and pause; That way anyone on  a bike/scooter/e-bike etc, has time to react, going round the front or waiting for me. The Marlin has a very long bonnet and low seating, so it's a particular problem for me.
I'm not going into the legalities of cycling, electric propulsion/assistance, on the footway; I would still feel bad regardless of liability, if someone was hurt.
N.B. I've not had any formal re-training since I passed my test.
Maybe visit a forum such as IAM or similar
The other possibility, is a reversing camera, with the actual camera pointing out diagonally from the front bumper in the direction where you have restricted vision; check with your insurance first though.
I bought a cheap one for use in the workshop as a magnifying viewer for use on the lathe etc, and just changed the focusing distance to make it for close up only.
You could even pick up one with dual input and have a camera facing each way.

[Magneteer]

I think I'd first walk past the end of the drive and have a quick look up and down the road at the state of play. So if say a bike/s was heading my way,  at least I'd have an idea before I got in the car.

[PRESLEY]

55 minutes ago, Magneteer said:

I think I'd first walk past the end of the drive and have a quick look up and down the road at the state of play. So if say a bike/s was heading my way,  at least I'd have an idea before I got in the car.

By the time you get back in your car, the state of play could have change and the bike could be upon you,   Daddy mentioned the most sensible thing to do which is just edge out ,  and I mean very slowly. Its safe and it works.  

[The_DADDY]

9 hours ago, SheffieldForum said:

 

Sounds like you're mostly doing what you can and acting responsibly.

 

The highway code now says that cyclists largely have priority over vehicles on highways and cycle lanes and does give mention to driveways in that:

 

1 (Highway code 201): Do not reverse from a side road into a main road. When using a driveway, reverse in and drive out if you can.

 

2 (Highway code 202): Look carefully before you start reversing. You should

• use all your mirrors
• check the ‘blind spot’ behind you (the part of the road you cannot see easily in the mirrors)
• check there are no pedestrians (particularly children), cyclists, other road users or obstructions in the road behind you.

Reverse slowly while

• checking all around
• looking mainly through the rear window
• being aware that the front of your vehicle will swing out as you turn.

Get someone to guide you if you cannot see clearly.

 

3 (Highway Code 204): The road users most at risk from road traffic are pedestrians, in particular children, older adults and disabled people, cyclists, horse riders and motorcyclists. It is particularly important to be aware of children, older adults and disabled people, and learner and inexperienced drivers and riders. In any interaction between road users, those who can cause the greatest harm have the greatest responsibility to reduce the danger or threat they pose to others.

 

4 (Highway code 206): Drive carefully and slowly when

• in crowded shopping streets, Home Zones and Quiet Lanes (see Rule 218) or residential areas
• driving past bus and tram stops; pedestrians may emerge suddenly into the road
• passing parked vehicles, especially ice cream vans; children are more interested in ice cream than traffic and may run into the road unexpectedly
• needing to cross a pavement, cycle lane or cycle track; for example, to reach or leave a driveway or private access. Give way to pedestrians on the pavement and cyclists using a cycle lane or cycle track
• reversing into a side road; look all around the vehicle and give way to any pedestrians who may be crossing the road
• turning at road junctions; you should give way to pedestrians who are crossing or waiting to cross the road into which or from which you are turning
• going through road works or when passing roadside rescue and recovery vehicles, as there may be people working in or at the side of the road
• the pavement is closed due to street repairs and pedestrians are directed to use the road
• approaching pedestrians on narrow rural roads without a footway or footpath. Always slow down and be prepared to stop if necessary, giving them plenty of room as you drive past
• approaching zebra and parallel crossings as you MUST give way to pedestrians and cyclists on the crossing (see Rule 195)
• approaching pedestrians who have started to cross the road ahead of you. They have priority when crossing at a junction or side road so you should give way (see Rule H2).

 

Of course, there will always be nuances to any situation, and some people are more irresponsible than others, but for the most part it is your responsibility to ensure a cyclist is not coming rather than a cyclist take avoiding action because of you.

Thank you for that 

Much appreciated 👍

[The_DADDY]

7 hours ago, peak4 said:

It sound like you're trying to drive, and teach, responsibly.
The mirror is a reasonable assistance, and shouldn't cause a problem with focusing sunlight, as you would use a convex, rather than concave one.
A bigger problem might be theft/vandalism, depending on where you live.
Personally, where there is restricted vision across a footway like you have, I tend to very slowly pull about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way out and pause; That way anyone on  a bike/scooter/e-bike etc, has time to react, going round the front or waiting for me. The Marlin has a very long bonnet and low seating, so it's a particular problem for me.
I'm not going into the legalities of cycling, electric propulsion/assistance, on the footway; I would still feel bad regardless of liability, if someone was hurt.
N.B. I've not had any formal re-training since I passed my test.
Maybe visit a forum such as IAM or similar
The other possibility, is a reversing camera, with the actual camera pointing out diagonally from the front bumper in the direction where you have restricted vision; check with your insurance first though.
I bought a cheap one for use in the workshop as a magnifying viewer for use on the lathe etc, and just changed the focusing distance to make it for close up only.
You could even pick up one with dual input and have a camera facing each way.

Thank you for the link, looks very interesting and thank you for the camera suggestion. I'll definitely look into that. I have 4 dashcams at present, a couple more cameras would hurt.

Thank you again 🙏

[The_DADDY]

4 hours ago, PRESLEY said:

By the time you get back in your car, the state of play could have change and the bike could be upon you,   Daddy mentioned the most sensible thing to do which is just edge out ,  and I mean very slowly. Its safe and it works.  

Yes, this ⬆️

I'll add that the path outside my house isn't straight and if I look up the road I can see 40 to 50ft at most due to trees and bushes which have overgrown and encroach onto the path.

 

[echo beach]

Get a concave mirror Daddy. The approaching folks will appear much smaller, like Borrowers, and will glide effortlessly under your car.😃.

 

echo

[dan_999uk]

You're asking who would be at fault if you pulled out of your drive into the path of traffic using the public highway?