Ecclesall Road/Abbeydale Road Bus Corridors Receive £3.52 Million Funding

[Planner1]

21 minutes ago, BigAl1 said:

I do agree about the signage issue and resulting confusion a national issue not just Sheffield and one the DAfT should have addressed years ago

Personally, I’d think the fault is more with drivers and their lack of observation. Many don’t look at or read the signs about bus lanes and don’t drive in them at the times they can and even start getting ****ty with drivers who quite rightly use them at times when they are allowed.

 

Hence I’ve always held the view that 24/7 bus lanes are generally the best solution. 

[Planner1]

15 hours ago, crookesey said:

I thought that jobs were scarce these days.

You might like to check the latest figures here

 

Compare them to the stats since the 1970’s here

 

The stats show unemployment at 3.7%, which is better than at any time in the 70’s.

[crookesey]

I spent 22 years in a retail environment, from the lowest to the highest, I was expected to be up to date with trends, in truth I could never read the wishes and desires of prospective customers. I would plan for an early morning avalanche, only to be faced with a normal day’s start, how public transport planners set up their side of getting them to where and when is a mystery to me.

[Top4719]

3 hours ago, Planner1 said:

Absolutely serious.

 

The retail perceptions study has been carried out in several places with very similar results.

 

When I worked for another council, I had a student carry out the same study there, in the town centre,  covering all retailers, the results were the same but even more pronounced.

 

The problem is that people like yourself dismiss the findings of well researched studies because the results don’t reflect what you believe.

 

There may well be some business owners / managers who do understand how their customer base travel to their premises, but research suggests that the majority don’t and that they vastly over estimate the number that come by car.

 

Theres also ample research that shows that people who walk and cycle to retailers spend more over a period of time than those who come by car.  Walkers and cyclists spend less per visit, but visit more frequently, so spend more in the long run.

 

When we are spending millions of pounds of public money, quite rightly we have to produce hard evidence to underpin what we are saying should be done. The evidence is very clear on what I’m saying. Where’s your evidence?

 

Studies can usually find whatever the people pushing an agenda want them to find, no one makes a decision to purchase a number of items and thinks of using a push bike instead of a car, it's utter rubbish.

[Planner1]

34 minutes ago, Top4719 said:

 

Studies can usually find whatever the people pushing an agenda want them to find, no one makes a decision to purchase a number of items and thinks of using a push bike instead of a car, it's utter rubbish.

Sorry but I think it’s you that’s talking rubbish.

 

When someone walks or cycles they can carry many items. People have bags, trolleys and rucsacs. Bikes have panniers and a whole range of different bags that can be attached. There are cargo bikes for larger, heavier items.

 

As I said before, evidence is that those who walk and cycle visit more frequently, which is as you’d expect because you can only carry so much.

 

No one is suggesting that there aren’t things you might buy which you would not be able to carry as a pedestrian or cyclist. But, out of all the purchases you make, how many are that big? And of course, you can usually get them delivered.

 

Would you care to explain how a study could be biased in which the researchers ask the retailer “ How do you think your customers get here? Please give us the percentage split across these categories:”

• Car
• Walk
• Cycle
• Public Transport
• Other

And then the researchers stand outside the premises and ask the customers how they got there.

 

All the studies I’ve seen show that the retailers think it’s about 70% car 30% rest. The results always show it’s the opposite way round. The results are pretty conclusive in my view.

[AndrewC]

1 hour ago, Top4719 said:

 

Studies can usually find whatever the people pushing an agenda want them to find

 

Completely agree. For example, a business owner who enjoys parking their own car outside their shop all day, and has a best mate customer who likes to park right outside, might deliberately overstate how much of their custom comes from cars in order to make a compelling case against restrictions.

 

On a serious note, what Planner1 is talking about is probably about business owners who have honest misconceptions about where their business comes from, as opposed to any cynical, deliberate agenda. I imagine many business owners subject to the studies Planner1 references are surprised at first, then probably quite grateful for the insight in to their custom.

 

It's far more likely that business owners are forming incorrect assumptions based on anecdotal evidence and car-bias, than using actual cold, hard facts like the studies Planner1 mentions.

[Planner1]

56 minutes ago, AndrewC said:

 

Completely agree. For example, a business owner who enjoys parking their own car outside their shop all day, and has a best mate customer who likes to park right outside, might deliberately overstate how much of their custom comes from cars in order to make a compelling case against restrictions.

When we were consulting on the permit parking schemes, this is exactly what one of the businesses on Ecclesall Rd told me about the neighbouring businesses.

[Top4719]

9 hours ago, AndrewC said:

 

Completely agree. For example, a business owner who enjoys parking their own car outside their shop all day, and has a best mate customer who likes to park right outside, might deliberately overstate how much of their custom comes from cars in order to make a compelling case against restrictions.

 

On a serious note, what Planner1 is talking about is probably about business owners who have honest misconceptions about where their business comes from, as opposed to any cynical, deliberate agenda. I imagine many business owners subject to the studies Planner1 references are surprised at first, then probably quite grateful for the insight in to their custom.

 

It's far more likely that business owners are forming incorrect assumptions based on anecdotal evidence and car-bias, than using actual cold, hard facts like the studies Planner1 mentions.

 

The business in question has no parking outside, the nearest is about 100 yards away, don't try to tell someone who knows their business inside out.

 

Cold, hard facts, laughable. As usual you two are mostly convincing yourselves.

[Top4719]

8 hours ago, Planner1 said:

When we were consulting on the permit parking schemes, this is exactly what one of the businesses on Ecclesall Rd told me about the neighbouring businesses.

 

Well what a surprise 🤣 You two should form a comedy duo, Cannon & Balls.

[AndrewC]

This was planner1's first comment to you; pretty fair and nuanced, I'd say. Seems to specifically say that their argument might not apply to your friend's business? It's you who is getting uppity and defensive about it. 

 

On 26/06/2024 at 09:09, Planner1 said:

What kind of business?

 

This may not apply to your friend, but...

 

 

 

This comment saying there is no parking outside seems weird, given earlier you said your friend was so against the scheme because they had a business 'there', presumably meaning on Ecclesall Road/Abbeydale Road and I'm struggling to think of many premises which wouldn't have road space outside of them. I guess your friends business might be near a junction so only reliant on nearby parking, but hard to know what you mean without knowing the specific details.

 

10 hours ago, Top4719 said:

 

The business in question has no parking outside, the nearest is about 100 yards away, don't try to tell someone who knows their business inside out.

On 25/06/2024 at 23:05, Top4719 said:

It was campaigned against by people like a friend of mine who has a long established business there that would have been destroyed by this barmy scheme.......and rightly so.

 

 

Of course, this does come back to the misconceptions about red lines that were mentioned in this thread earlier; the red lines largely just reinforce the existing restrictions like double-yellows, bus lanes etc, makes it easier to enforce and produce penalties, so it shouldn't really be having a huge impact on normal, daytime custom.

 

Unless your friend is saying their business is reliant on people currently parking on double-yellows and/or in bus lanes during active times? Which seems...weird?

 

 

 

Edited June 28 by AndrewC