What is the solution to UK prisons running out of room?

[Al Bundy]

43 minutes ago, Delbow said:

 

There are plenty of people growing weed in a cellar or attic in a house - not big time dealers, but they and the people selling it for them will go to prison if caught. And people involved in growing and distributing cannabis can't just move into other drugs, because that means treading on the toes of the people already moving those drugs, which is ill-advised.

Would someone go to prison if they were caught with 5 plants in their attic?

 

I would highly doubt it.

[Delbow]

4 minutes ago, Al Bundy said:

Would someone go to prison if they were caught with 5 plants in their attic?

 

I would highly doubt it.

 

They would for 35 plants - but that's not 'big time'. 

 

But the point is there's all this time and money spent on detecting, prosecuting and often imprisoning people for growing and selling cannabis when there is no reason to do so. That time and money could be better spent on preventing other types of crime. Plenty of places have gone down that route already, why do we always have to be behind?

[BigPP]

1 hour ago, m williamson said:

According to this link  https://www.statista.com/chart/31061/highest-prisoner-rates-in-western-europe/#:~:text=England and Wales have the,the two countries in 2023.  Britain imprisons more people per 1000,000 population than any other  country in Western Europe. If that is true then it's worth asking why.

 

Are people in Britain more criminally inclined than everywhere else it the West of Europe ? Or, do we imprison more people for lesser offences? Either way it's worth analysing and some form of remedial action being taken.

 

I've no idea which it is, or even if it's a mixture of the two.  I find it hard to believe it's the former, yes we have our share of scumbags but so does every other country.

It's always been my opinion that someone should only be incarcerated if they present an actual danger to the public, otherwise some other form of retribution should be found.

 

 

 

 

I suspect a major factor is the UK being one of the most unequal countries in Europe.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047235223000363

 

"There is compelling evidence that economic inequality is positively correlated with crime. The current study offers a new explanation for this positive correlation, based on the social resistance framework. We posit that economic inequality alienates individuals from the institutions and values of society, and this, in turn, leads them to resist these institutions and values by, among other things, engaging in criminal behaviour."

[melthebell]

34 minutes ago, BigPP said:

 

I suspect a major factor is the UK being one of the most unequal countries in Europe.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047235223000363

 

"There is compelling evidence that economic inequality is positively correlated with crime. The current study offers a new explanation for this positive correlation, based on the social resistance framework. We posit that economic inequality alienates individuals from the institutions and values of society, and this, in turn, leads them to resist these institutions and values by, among other things, engaging in criminal behaviour."

It's like when reform have stated about removing people's benefits, then when pushed about what will happen after they refuse to answer.

 

Yeah, cos they don't fancy admitting they will turn to crime, not really a vote winner to admit

[peak4]

6 hours ago, m williamson said:

According to this link  https://www.statista.com/chart/31061/highest-prisoner-rates-in-western-europe/#:~:text=England and Wales have the,the two countries in 2023.  Britain imprisons more people per 1000,000 population than any other  country in Western Europe. If that is true then it's worth asking why.

Are people in Britain more criminally inclined than everywhere else it the West of Europe ? Or, do we imprison more people for lesser offences? Either way it's worth analysing and some form of remedial action being taken.

I've no idea which it is, or even if it's a mixture of the two.  I find it hard to believe it's the former, yes we have our share of scumbags but so does every other country.

It's always been my opinion that someone should only be incarcerated if they present an actual danger to the public, otherwise some other form of retribution should be found.

We also have a very high re-offending rate; other countries seem to do much better at rehabilitation and re-entering into mainstream society
Too late at night now for a long post, though I have discussed it before.
A Nation Obsessed with Crime: Prisons in England and Wales     LSE Blog

It was once a priority that punishments be “humane.” That priority underpinned punishment’s move toward imprisonment and away from torture, the death penalty and other grueling alternatives. But pinning punishment to humanity necessitates no more than the deprivation of one’s liberty. That limiting principle obtains in some Scandinavian prisons, where highly effective “open prisons” replicate life outside prison as much as possible. Yet elsewhere, underpaid labour, infantilization from prison officers, and solitary confinement far exceed that limiting principle and result in making prisoners suffer. Our appetite for prisons transgresses that limiting principle in their widespread use, too: Imprisonment is already an expensive last resort to fines and community sentences, costing upwards of 40,000 per prison place each year.

However, if the goal of imprisonment really is reform, re-education and reinsertion into mainstream society, it is – to put it bluntly – not doing a good job.

Of those sentenced to less than 12 months in custody, 63% will reoffend within a year of release. Compare this to Norway’s reoffending rate of just 20%, and it is difficult to argue that the taxpayer in England & Wales is getting good bang for the buck. Given the disparity, it is astonishing that the Conservative party’s allegedly pragmatic penal policy is to create more prison places: 10,000 more places were pledged in the 2019 election, since raised to 18,000.

[Al Bundy]

10 hours ago, Delbow said:

 

They would for 35 plants - but that's not 'big time'. 

 

But the point is there's all this time and money spent on detecting, prosecuting and often imprisoning people for growing and selling cannabis when there is no reason to do so. That time and money could be better spent on preventing other types of crime. Plenty of places have gone down that route already, why do we always have to be behind?

Are you a smoker of weed as I am guessing it has a leaning towards your opinion on this?

 

No need to answer if that's a too personal question though.

[Delbow]

22 minutes ago, Al Bundy said:

Are you a smoker of weed as I am guessing it has a leaning towards your opinion on this?

 

No need to answer if that's a too personal question though.

 

I use it for insomnia - it's better in that regard than any prescription medication and is also less harmful. The first line NHS medication for insomnia is Zopiclone but that is a more toxic drug. Weed is an absolute doddle to get hold of - if you want it you can get it easily, so keeping it illegal is an act of complete dishonesty by government. They are pretending to the public that by keeping it illegal they are restricting access to it, but that is just a lie. Much better to admit that it's freely available and legalise it, which would not only keep people out of prison but also reduce violent crime between big time outfits. In New York state, a percentage of the profits from legal cannabis sales goes to treatment programmes for other drugs like crack and opiates - it's a win / win. 

[geared]

4 hours ago, Al Bundy said:

Are you a smoker of weed as I am guessing it has a leaning towards your opinion on this?

 

No need to answer if that's a too personal question though.

 

I'd more than support legalisation, bring in much needed tax money, provide jobs and an opportunity for new businesses and cut down on the guff police have to deal with rounding up people currently producing and dealing cannabis.

 

I hate the stuff, it stinks and I'd have no intention of using it if it did become legal.

[dan_999uk]

19 hours ago, melthebell said:

KILL EM ALL

It's being tried, including the prison wardens. 

[PRESLEY]

Send em to Rwanda, oops! Sorry that Gimmick as already been thought of for someone else.