Proportional Representation

[FIRETHORN1]

I don't consider myself to be particularly thick and unintelligent, but I must admit that I really don't understand how Proportional Representation works. when it comes to deciding election results. Can anyone explain it to me, in the simplest terms possible?

For example, I don't understand how Reform can poll 4 million votes in this current election, yet end up with only 4 seats in Parliament - yet the Lib/Dems, who polled  a lower total of 3.2 million votes, have won 71 seats. This just doesn't seem fair  to me. Surely, the more votes you get, the more you should win a seat in Parliament?  I think that the first-past-post system must surely be fairer.  Or am I just being  naive?

[cuttsie]

7 minutes ago, FIRETHORN1 said:

I don't consider myself to be particularly thick and unintelligent, but I must admit that I really don't understand how Proportional Representation works. when it comes to deciding election results. Can anyone explain it to me, in the simplest terms possible?

For example, I don't understand how Reform can poll 4 million votes in this current election, yet end up with only 4 seats in Parliament - yet the Lib/Dems, who polled  a lower total of 3.2 million votes, have won 71 seats. This just doesn't seem fair  to me. Surely, the more votes you get, the more you should win a seat in Parliament?  I think that the first-past-post system must surely be fairer.  Or am I just being  naive?

The ruling classes, (public schools and so on ) know that if the working people's votes were all added up then they would never govern the Country, That is  why we are split up into regions to avoid a socialist Government that would win every time . 

[Gormenghast]

PR would allocate party seats in accordance with each party's proportion of the total vote, so you'd be voting for a party, not an individual.

[El Cid]

In my constituency, the SDP got 99 votes, a total waste of time, but added up over all the country that is a lot of votes.

However the LD votes are concentrated in one area, the votes for reform are spread out.

[altus]

52 minutes ago, FIRETHORN1 said:

I don't consider myself to be particularly thick and unintelligent, but I must admit that I really don't understand how Proportional Representation works. when it comes to deciding election results. Can anyone explain it to me, in the simplest terms possible?

For example, I don't understand how Reform can poll 4 million votes in this current election, yet end up with only 4 seats in Parliament - yet the Lib/Dems, who polled  a lower total of 3.2 million votes, have won 71 seats. This just doesn't seem fair  to me. Surely, the more votes you get, the more you should win a seat in Parliament?  I think that the first-past-post system must surely be fairer.  Or am I just being  naive?

 

You've demonstrated you don't understand either proportional representation (PR) or first past the post (FPTP).

 

Reform got so few seats despite so many votes because we have a FPTP electoral system. Even though they won 71 seats this time, the LibDems would have got more seats with the same number of votes if we used a PR electoral system.

 

As Gormenghast said, PR allocates seats based on the total number of votes. Under FPTP they are based on the votes in individual constituencies.

[FIRETHORN1]

Thanks Gormenghast. That's clarified it a bit for me. I live in a constituency (Peckham, in SE London)  where labour always gets about 99% of the votes and probably always will. I've been a life-long Labour voter, but really can't bring myself to support this super-woke, anti-semitic rabble  that they are now.

I don't like the Tories. the Lib Dems  or Reform either. I voted for an Independent candidate this time - although I know it's pointless and won't make any difference to the inevitable Labour victory.

[alchemist]

FPTP has always and will always be a grossly unfair system.

still, its alot easier to understand and fairer than the outlandish american electoral college system!! 🥴

[alchemist]

FYI
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/how-the-2024-election-could-have-looked-with-proportional-representation/

[m williamson]

PR+STV has been used in Northern Ireland for local elections and has been since 1973.  As a result of the previous gerrymandering and blatant unfairness of the voting system which was used by the authorities there to discriminate against the smaller community a voting system that was clearly fair was introduced.

 

Despite which, when an alternative method of voting to FPTP was offered in 2011 to the British electorate PR+STV was not offered. It didn't suit the two major parties and that was all that mattered to them. 

[Annie Bynnol]

    Has anybody mentioned which type of PR they want?

    Has anybody mentioned that the people of the UK have voted against PR already?

 

    Some types of PR advantage small local parties, sometimes ethnic minorities.

    Some return extremists who wield disproportional power in the inevitable coalitions.

    Most allow urban areas to dominate.

    Many lead to the creation of fewer but  enormous constituencies with multiple representatives.

    Do we really want more MPs?

    Many return members to a Parliament who have no constituency and are no responsible to the public.

    +

    Who decides what PR we get?

    Who decides changes to a PR system when it is in place?