Racially diverse cast to play Anglo-Saxons in BBC drama

[peak4]

Perhaps with reference to my earlier post on P2, can anyone explain why folk are getting so upset about the skin colour of an actor playing a fictional character?
Yes, I would imagine a black person playing Lincoln, or a white one playing Obama might raise eyebrows; similarly white Zulus, but this seems to be about a fictional person.
It seems to be all about skin colour, or someone would have questioned a Dane (with a bit of Swedish + German) playing William, a Norman.
It's arguably  unlikely that a person of colour would rise to the rank of Thane, but there is at least one report of an African becoming an influential abbot  previously, as well as a number of skeletons found in various archaeological digs.

The Earliest Evidence for Africans in Britain   DigVentures

Istopic analysis of teeth can reveal where someone grew up.

In fact, the great chronicler Bede (Historia Ecclesiastica, IV.1) writes about a ‘man of African race’ called Hadrian who arrived in AD 668.

He became an incredibly influential abbott, and was pivotal in shaping England’s church structures, and may have even introduced the study of Greek to the Anglo-Saxons.

 

A little more about St Hadrian
Canterbury: An African in Anglo-Saxon England

 

See also An African presence in thirteenth-century Britain   Yes, that's a link to The Domesday Abbreviato, commissioned by William post conquest, one of the characters in the drama-Documentary.

Why might the Abbreviato feature an image of an African man? 

Like many other islands, Britain has a long record of migration, which dates back thousands of years. An African presence can be specifically dated back to the migration to Britain of the Roman Emperor Septimius Severus, who was born in modern-day Libya.

[peak4]

52 minutes ago, Norbert said:

Crikey there's a lot of very popular programs with colour-blind casting.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color-blind_casting

Yep, lots and lots, often featuring some very fine actors, which barely raises an eyebrow unless someone is trying to promote culture wars or anti-wokeness.

[redruby]

5 hours ago, peak4 said:

Perhaps with reference to my earlier post on P2, can anyone explain why folk are getting so upset about the skin colour of an actor playing a fictional character?
Yes, I would imagine a black person playing Lincoln, or a white one playing Obama might raise eyebrows; similarly white Zulus, but this seems to be about a fictional person.
It seems to be all about skin colour, or someone would have questioned a Dane (with a bit of Swedish + German) playing William, a Norman.
It's arguably  unlikely that a person of colour would rise to the rank of Thane, but there is at least one report of an African becoming an influential abbot  previously, as well as a number of skeletons found in various archaeological digs.

The Earliest Evidence for Africans in Britain   DigVentures

Istopic analysis of teeth can reveal where someone grew up.

In fact, the great chronicler Bede (Historia Ecclesiastica, IV.1) writes about a ‘man of African race’ called Hadrian who arrived in AD 668.

He became an incredibly influential abbott, and was pivotal in shaping England’s church structures, and may have even introduced the study of Greek to the Anglo-Saxons.

 

A little more about St Hadrian
Canterbury: An African in Anglo-Saxon England

 

See also An African presence in thirteenth-century Britain   Yes, that's a link to The Domesday Abbreviato, commissioned by William post conquest, one of the characters in the drama-Documentary.

Why might the Abbreviato feature an image of an African man? 

Like many other islands, Britain has a long record of migration, which dates back thousands of years. An African presence can be specifically dated back to the migration to Britain of the Roman Emperor Septimius Severus, who was born in modern-day Libya. 

 

Erm, I think I’ve addressed these points about black people in historical times in England before on this thread.  And provided links.  I also pointed out, and provided a link about Mesolithic people in England having dark skin.  There has been a constant flow of immigrants to England (and all over the world).  We are all immigrants.  However, there simply was not a significant proportion of black people in England in Anglo Saxon times.

 

My opinion is that dramas should be realistic.  I

watched a drama based on a true story recently and the actors had all been cast to look similar to the real people they were playing.  If they had randomly had a fat old person a character that in real life was a slim young person it would have detracted from the drama.  That isn’t being ‘fatist’ of any such nonsense.  It’s about a realistic portrayal of events. Not inventing one to suit a narrative.

 

In the case of historical fictional characters, it should realistically reflect actual history not an invented one.  
 

I also pointed out a Shakespeare play I saw with women playing some male roles.  I found it odd and distracting.  And, yes I am well aware that men played female characters in Shakespeare’s day because acting was considered unsuitable for women.  It was still odd and distracting to see women playing men though.  And that isn’t being sexist.

 

As for a ‘Dane playing a Norman’.  The word Norman originates from North Men, i.e. men from the north.  This is a dictionary definition ‘a member of a people of mixed Frankish and Scandinavian origin who settled in Normandy from about AD 912 and became a dominant military power in western Europe and the Mediterranean in the 11th century.’  So many Normans would have had some Danish ancestry.  https://www.britannica.com/topic/Norman-people

 

[redruby]

9 hours ago, melthebell said:

I watch and read far more history than you know, the trouble is the right cherry pick the bits they like and disregard the bits they don't like, to create a narrative.

Like I've already said, the country wasn't all white, that's whitewashing of history

No it wasn’t.  But please see my reply to another post above.

 

[vmam]

22 hours ago, cuttsie said:

Remember The Black and White minstrels show on TV.

I remember Lenny Henry being on it but now he's a "Sir " he's  against the old show, he enjoyed the money he made but now he's climbed on the bandwagon by writing a series about the Windrush and his family but he spit his dummy out after the series was cancelled because nobody watched it. My family had a worse life  in Ireland during the 1800s but it's only interesting to my family.

[redruby]

1 hour ago, vmam said:

I remember Lenny Henry being on it but now he's a "Sir " he's  against the old show, he enjoyed the money he made but now he's climbed on the bandwagon by writing a series about the Windrush and his family but he spit his dummy out after the series was cancelled because nobody watched it. My family had a worse life  in Ireland during the 1800s but it's only interesting to my family.

I was taught very little about black history at school but I also taught very little about Irish history.  I only quite recently learned of the famine roads in Ireland which was a truly shameful and wicked episode in history.  I think people underestimate the value of teaching history.  The world would be a better place if we were better at learning from history.

[Anna B]

I'm perfectly happy with blind casting in modern plays, which should and does represent a diverse population, but it drives me nuts in historical dramas. History is important to me, and I want it to be as accurate as the script allows. A black Anne Boleyn for example is just wrong. 

[redruby]

40 minutes ago, Anna B said:

I'm perfectly happy with blind casting in modern plays, which should and does represent a diverse population, but it drives me nuts in historical dramas. History is important to me, and I want it to be as accurate as the script allows. A black Anne Boleyn for example is just wrong. 

Exactly!

 

And I know some people will take this the wrong way, but I’m pretty sure that if white actors were cast as say, African tribesmen, this would be considered deeply offensive.  And rightly so actually.  But equally it’s offensive to many people of white British heritage to have black actors cast as Anglo Saxons.  I don’t want repeat in detail my previous posts about the historical facts about there being a few black people in England in Anglo Saxon times and us all historically being immigrants.  That is all fine and dandy but the fact is there were very few black people in England at that time and historical dramas should reflect that.

 

What would be better, in my opinion, would be to have some historical dramas about black and Asian history.  That would be far more inclusive (and educational) for us all than sticking some black actors in a drama about Anglo Saxon history.

[ab6262]

be interesting to see a white Nelson Mandella portrayed ??

[Annie Bynnol]

   Where are they going to find any Anglo-Saxons to play the parts?   

 

   This  'romantic' view of an Anglo-Saxon conquest and culture is a modern invention.

   It whitewashes the 400 years of chaos and dreadful suffering caused by several waves of warring factions, These  immigrants came from what is now France, Benelux. Germany, Denmark and Norway, but these immigrants had for a thousand years interbred with the Mercenaries, colonists and slaves that made up the Roman Empire expansion, and who themselves up of, principally, Mediterranean, North African and conquered people of East and Central Europe. 

   This period of chaos is rightly called the Dark Ages, a period of endless civil war and destruction and lasted until the Normans and their allies got rid of them and took permanent control of a much bigger area than the Saxons ever did. 

 

   An 'Anglo-Saxon' actor could come from any 'background' and represent physically and/or metaphorically that chaotic world.