Racially diverse cast to play Anglo-Saxons in BBC drama

[cressida]

I did read that 'Pride & Prejudice' had been performed in India by Indian actors, that's ok by me.

[redruby]

25 minutes ago, cressida said:

I did read that 'Pride & Prejudice' had been performed in India by Indian actors, that's ok by me.

Well yes, for a performance in India you would expect that. 

[redruby]

3 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

   Where are they going to find any Anglo-Saxons to play the parts?   

 

   This  'romantic' view of an Anglo-Saxon conquest and culture is a modern invention.

   It whitewashes the 400 years of chaos and dreadful suffering caused by several waves of warring factions, These  immigrants came from what is now France, Benelux. Germany, Denmark and Norway, but these immigrants had for a thousand years interbred with the Mercenaries, colonists and slaves that made up the Roman Empire expansion, and who themselves up of, principally, Mediterranean, North African and conquered people of East and Central Europe. 

   This period of chaos is rightly called the Dark Ages, a period of endless civil war and destruction and lasted until the Normans and their allies got rid of them and took permanent control of a much bigger area than the Saxons ever did. 

 

   An 'Anglo-Saxon' actor could come from any 'background' and represent physically and/or metaphorically that chaotic world.

I think I’ve addressed this in previous posts that were quite long.  This included the fact that ‘we are all immigrants’.  I still don’t agree  but don’t want to repeat annd write another long post on this. 
I will repeat one small part though, which that it would be far more inclusive, educational, realistic and interesting to have some dramas about black and Asian history rather sticking a few black actors in a drama about Anglo Saxons.  And yes, I would expect the roles of black and Asian people to be played by actors of the same ethnic background.  Not white people.

[lavery549@yahoo]

Well , next thing there will be Afro Carribean Vikings .  This is ridiculous now . I am all for Diversity , but when people try to re write History , it's not on . 

[altus]

1 hour ago, lavery549@yahoo said:

Well , next thing there will be Afro Carribean Vikings .  This is ridiculous now . I am all for Diversity , but when people try to re write History , it's not on . 

 

I'll look forward to you complaining the next time Jesus is portrayed as white. Are you going to protest outside your local church when they do a nativity play at xmas?

[Mkapaka]

3 hours ago, lavery549@yahoo said:

Well , next thing there will be Afro Carribean Vikings .  This is ridiculous now . I am all for Diversity , but when people try to re write History , it's not on . 

whos trying to rewrite history? They’re actors? 

[Annie Bynnol]

2 hours ago, lavery549@yahoo said:

Well , next thing there will be Afro Carribean Vikings .  This is ridiculous now . I am all for Diversity , but when people try to re write History , it's not on .  

 The Saxons immigrants(from 450) would not have links with the Viking(from 800)until long after they arrived even then there would have been more 'Viking' blood amongst their enemies, and even more amongst the Normans who defeated them. At this time Vikings would include Slavs and Greeks. You also ignore the myriad of European, Middle Eastern and North African ethnic groups that formed the greater part of the Roman influx.

  The movement of peoples, their ethnic profiles, their 'identity', was in such a fluid state before the Normans imposed their will, that writing a history of Britain in terms of Saxons, Vikings, Jutes, Danes, French etc. when it is about power, influence, alliance etc, and very little to do with their appearance and genetic background. History is not fixed and has many interpretations and emphases, there will never be a definitive history of anything.  

[redruby]

5 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

 The Saxons immigrants(from 450) would not have links with the Viking(from 800)until long after they arrived even then there would have been more 'Viking' blood amongst their enemies, and even more amongst the Normans who defeated them. At this time Vikings would include Slavs and Greeks. You also ignore the myriad of European, Middle Eastern and North African ethnic groups that formed the greater part of the Roman influx.

  The movement of peoples, their ethnic profiles, their 'identity', was in such a fluid state before the Normans imposed their will, that writing a history of Britain in terms of Saxons, Vikings, Jutes, Danes, French etc. when it is about power, influence, alliance etc, and very little to do with their appearance and genetic background. History is not fixed and has many interpretations and emphases, there will never be a definitive history of anything.  

You are quite right that there a great deal of intermixing of people in historic times and as I’ve said twice before now we are all immigrants.  But I still don’t think this fact should be used to stifle people speaking out about inaccurate representation of Anglo Saxon people.  Yes, black people existed in England in Anglo Saxon times but they were not at all commonplace.  No more commonplace than white people in Africa at that time.   I very much doubt that white people would be cast in roles as African tribesmen in a historical drama made nowadays.  I think that be considered offensive and very controversial. So why cast black people as Anglo Saxons?  Another poster on here has tried to stifle debate quoting historical facts (that I had already made) to defend this but then got in a muddle themselves by not understanding that Normans were mix of Viking and Frankish people.  
It is correct that history is not completely fixed and there are different and evolving interpretations.  But portraying Anglo Saxon England as having a significant population of black people is pushing it too far. 

[Annie Bynnol]

1 hour ago, redruby said:

You are quite right that there a great deal of intermixing of people in historic times and as I’ve said twice before now we are all immigrants.  But I still don’t think this fact should be used to stifle people speaking out about inaccurate representation of Anglo Saxon people.  Yes, black people existed in England in Anglo Saxon times but they were not at all commonplace.  No more commonplace than white people in Africa at that time.   I very much doubt that white people would be cast in roles as African tribesmen in a historical drama made nowadays.  I think that be considered offensive and very controversial. So why cast black people as Anglo Saxons?  Another poster on here has tried to stifle debate quoting historical facts (that I had already made) to defend this but then got in a muddle themselves by not understanding that Normans were mix of Viking and Frankish people.  
It is correct that history is not completely fixed and there are different and evolving interpretations.  But portraying Anglo Saxon England as having a significant population of black people is pushing it too far. 

     We are not talking about a Continent(Africa-which probably would have had a majority white population at that time), but a corner of South East England-rich in resources that had attracted immigrants from North West Europe. These immigrants joined up with previous waves, especially the Celts and wave after wave of racially diverse people arrived to support Roman power. These immigrants did not leave- the population increased. 

    As land holding traditions changed and military power ebbed and flowed. so did dominant languages an cultures-but ethnicity did not. To talk about an Anglo Saxon invasion is wrong. It took hundreds of years for a culture, the English call 'Anglo Saxon' to evolve and dominate SE England and by then the DNA of that wave had been well and truly mixed up with that of the previous waves..  

    The idea that only modern day actors that look 'white' can only represent the people in Anglo Saxons times is historically an ethnically unfounded. 

 

 

[lavery549@yahoo]

21 hours ago, altus said:

 

I'll look forward to you complaining the next time Jesus is portrayed as white. Are you going to protest outside your local church when they do a nativity play at xmas?

Nope altus , don't do religion , so no protesting for me thanks 😅