Demonstrations, Riots and Disorder Across the UK Following the Southport Attacks

[peak4]

16 minutes ago, SheffieldForum said:

That tweet perfectly sums up something I’ve been trying to sensitively formulate in my head throughout this — thank you.

I did think it odd that the specific subject has received so little attention; then I sat back  and thought for a bit as to why it might be..............................
Compare that Imam's post to one here from a sitting MP, amplifying an Elon Musk tweet

[Mister M]

4 minutes ago, redruby said:

Let’s be clear, I’m not trying to hijack this thread.  If you don’t like riots and racism then you shouldn’t try to squash and shut down people who want to discuss how deprivation is an important underlying factor.  Not an excuse for thuggish behaviour but an important factor in how these riots came about.  They didn’t happen in wealthy areas, they happened in 7 out of the 10 most deprived areas in England.  Shutting down anyone who raises this and dismisses it as whataboutery is part of the problem in my opinion.  If shutting down worked the riots would never have happened.  

Nobody is shutting down people who want to discuss how deprivation is an important underlying factor. However in much the same way as after the 2011 riots, people sought to justify post hoc the mass looting of shops selling trainers and televisions as some kind of noble response to austerity; you're now seeking to re-write history and claim the cause is deprivation.

Yes of course the riots happened in deprived areas, but what you're also ignoring is that many of the rioters traveled to those areas to riot, just like they traveled to Southport to smash the place up.

The people who were the target of the rioters weren't the wealthy, but people of similar socio economic origins as the rioters, or in the case of the Rotherham hotel, people who were significantly worse off than the rioters.

 

Have a read of David Olusoga's article in today's Observer - probably one of the most clear eyed analysis you'll read on the events of the last 2 weeks:

There can be no excuses. The UK riots were violent racism fomented by populism | David Olusoga | The Guardian 

 

[RollingJ]

24 minutes ago, redruby said:

I really do wonder how it’s come to pass that some consider it taboo to discuss social and economic factors as a factor in rioting in and unrest.  

It is not 'taboo' - it is just that you are, apparently, trying to mask the fact that these recent events have clearly been used by racists to further their aims.

[redruby]

Just now, Mister M said:

Nobody is shutting down people who want to discuss how deprivation is an important underlying factor. However in much the same way as after the 2011 riots, people sought to justify post hoc the mass looting of shops selling trainers and televisions as some kind of noble response to austerity; you're now seeking to re-write history and claim the cause is deprivation.

Yes of course the riots happened in deprived areas, but what you're also ignoring is that many of the rioters traveled to those areas to riot, just like they traveled to Southport to smash the place up.

The people who were the target of the rioters weren't the wealthy, but people of similar socio economic origins as the rioters, or in the case of the Rotherham hotel, people who were significantly worse off than the rioters.

 

Have a read of David Olusoga's article in today's Observer - probably one of the most clear eyed analysis you'll read on the events of the last 2 weeks:

There can be no excuses. The UK riots were violent racism fomented by populism | David Olusoga | The Guardian 

 

That is fine but I’m afraid there is plenty of shutting down going on in this thread alone.  The issue of deprivation has been dismissed time and again.  I’ve never suggested the targets of the riots are wealthy, far from it.  
 

Anyhow, anyone who wants to believe this happened in isolation can do.  But it won’t truly go away unless underlying issues are addressed.

[peak4]

I really can't be bothered going through 160+ pages to do a content count, but it feels like there are more posts complaining about shutting down discussion on deprivation, than there are actual comments trying to divert away from it.
In reality most folk on here do seem to acknowledge that deprived areas need significant government investment, and that it's some politicians, and a variety of bad actors who seek to fan the flames of residents genuine concerns.
Again I've not done an accurate count, but it seems like asylum accommodation is also steered to the most deprived, and often Labour voting areas.
It's almost like this was the previous government's policy. Tory run councils and constituencies seem to have done quite well overall when it came to objecting to proposed hostels etc.
Thread from last Feb by Lewis Goodall; about Rotherham, but just as relevant to Southport, where the riots were pre-organised and the majority of the folk involved there seemed to be non-local
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1628689559138566147.html

There are too many people claiming those orchestrating the rallies at hotels housing asylum seekers aren’t the organised far right. They’re either ignorant or have an agenda. Take a look at the one I went to in Rotherham and judge for yourself.

[RollingJ]

@peak4 Fair enough, but maybe, as a I have said previously, your main thrust here is nothing to do with the original point of this topic -  racists being thuggish racists - and more to do with  'deprivation' in general, which should maybe be in it's own topic? Just my twopennorth to try and make both subjects easier to read.

[peak4]

13 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

@peak4 Fair enough, but maybe, as a I have said previously, your main thrust here is nothing to do with the original point of this topic -  racists being thuggish racists - and more to do with  'deprivation' in general, which should maybe be in it's own topic? Just my twopennorth to try and make both subjects easier to read.

Absolutely these riots are driven by racism as the earlier linked article by David Olusoga seeks to explain; The topic started about the riots themselves, as a spin off to remain respectful to those affected in Southport. The Lewis Goodall link seems to confirm previous events were pre-planned by far right groups.
There is still an issue though that that folk who wouldn't normally seek to riot get drawn into it by those racist thugs who start the violence in the first place.
A decent article here by Lizzie Dearden; Intro from her Twitter post - 

I was at this woman's sentencing on Friday - she was jailed for 20 months

The court heard that she was vulnerable and homeless, having recently fled domestic violence.

She tagged along with friends to the protest after bumping into them outside a shop

 

‘People just like rioting’: why swift justice may blur real motivations behind UK rampage  Guardian [ I'm not suggesting that swift action isn't necessary by any means]
Experts raise concerns that speed of court hearings could cloud complex reasons behind large-scale disorder and curtail search for lessons.

[El Cid]

1 hour ago, peak4 said:

Tory run councils and constituencies seem to have done quite well overall when it came to objecting to proposed hostels etc.

 

 

We did have the Townsfund giving millions to mostly Tory constituency wards, but it does not replace the millions in funding reduced and peoples drop in living standards.

People dont trust the political parties.

Just look at what Reform was promising, lower taxes yet higher spending, at least Labour tried not to make promises.

[RollingJ]

7 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Just look at what Reform was promising, lower taxes yet higher spending,

Be extremely interesting to see how that worked -it wouldn't of course, but Farage thinks we're all as thick as him.

[The_DADDY]

1 hour ago, El Cid said:

 

We did have the Townsfund giving millions to mostly Tory constituency wards, but it does not replace the millions in funding reduced and peoples drop in living standards.

People dont trust the political parties.

Just look at what Reform was promising, lower taxes yet higher spending, at least Labour tried not to make promises.

Didn't they promise no tax increases?