The Battle of Sheffield City Centre

[SheffieldForum]

Very, very good article from The Tribune here, about the quest for Sheffield City Centre to become more residential-focussed in it's regeneration and balancing that with the nighttime economy expanding licencing hours and footprint. Great arguments from both sides. Here's a snippet:

 

"The final straw came on Sunday when the newly reopened bar The Wick at Both Ends had a live band on with all their windows and doors open until midnight. While none of these venues are actually in the quiet zone, they are all near enough for residents at West One to hear them, especially when they leave their doors and windows open. “It’s not as if there is a brick wall in between,” he [West One resident] says. “On Saturday night, I only got about three or four hours sleep. I’d just had enough.”

 

[...]

 

"Part of the current conflict between residents and the night time economy has been a change in people’s leisure habits. “Everyone goes out later now, not just students,” he [anonymous West Street bar manager] says. “I used to manage other bars on West Street and Carver Street and if we would have been a 12 o'clock bar, we would have made no money because most of the income is generated in those places post midnight. People do go out early on a Saturday, but midweek it’s all late crowds. You’re not getting the late night party atmosphere that people seek by 10 o'clock.”

 

Also, I didn't know there were designated 'Quiet Zones' in the City Centre - as marked in red on this map from the article here:

 

 

I can kind of see how people in West One may be aggrieved if they bought a flat there when it first opened and it was designated as a 'Quiet Zone' (and then the developers apparently lobbied for more night-time economy in the courtyard, which in turn allowed looser licensing at the top of West Street/Glossop Road).

 

The full thing can be read at The Tribune.

[sheffbag]

1 hour ago, SheffieldForum said:

"The final straw came on Sunday when the newly reopened bar The Wick at Both Ends had a live band on with all their windows and doors open until midnight. While none of these venues are actually in the quiet zone, they are all near enough for residents at West One to hear them, especially when they leave their doors and windows open. “It’s not as if there is a brick wall in between,” he [West One resident] says. “On Saturday night, I only got about three or four hours sleep. I’d just had enough.”

So they were getting up at 5 in the morning? 

[SheffieldForum]

15 minutes ago, sheffbag said:

So they were getting up at 5 in the morning? 

Perhaps... plenty of people do!

 

Or maybe their sleep was broken and totalled three or four hours sleep.

 

I think their point still stands either way.

[YorkieontheTyne]

Phew. I read the headline and for a moment I thought it was going to be another Southport thread. No thanks.

Noise is one of the things you get in a busy city/town centre. Many times in my working life I took coach parties away and the accommodation is described in the brochure as “being in the heart of the city”, or something similar. You then get complaints about the overnight noise of traffic/people/early morning deliveries etc.

It’s one of those things that comes with the territory is noise, whether you live there or are just visiting.

 

[SheffieldForum]

35 minutes ago, YorkieontheTyne said:

Phew. I read the headline and for a moment I thought it was going to be another Southport thread. No thanks.

Noise is one of the things you get in a busy city/town centre. Many times in my working life I took coach parties away and the accommodation is described in the brochure as “being in the heart of the city”, or something similar. You then get complaints about the overnight noise of traffic/people/early morning deliveries etc.

It’s one of those things that comes with the territory is noise, whether you live there or are just visiting.

 

 

Indeed - and I agree to an extent. But it does seem there is more nuance in this case.

 

There are designated 'quiet zones' in the city centre where residential development was/is encouraged, on the basis that residents wouldn't be disrupted by noise.

 

West One was built in this quiet zone and the square at the top was designated to retail. Of course Revolution somehow went into the main unit (with noise and opening restrictions), but they struggled to consistently fill the other units with retail so the developers lobbied for the restrictions on use to be loosened to allow for more bars and nighttime economy uses and eventually won out. Then as these bars wanted to trade more they lobbied to open longer, etc, and that was eventually granted.

 

This had the effect then that all the nearby bars on West Street which had also had limits on opening times, also then applied for their licenses to be extended later to compete, with the precident set nearby, so they got granted. That has ended up in a race to apply for later-and-later opening among all the nearby venues and when one is granted the others use it as a precident to get their own license extended. Which has also had an effect on Glossop Road venues, where traditionally veneues were all to close earlier as it was on the edge of quiet zones, but they can successfully argue there is a precedent nearby and it spreads... There are now RESTAURANTS on Glossop Road applying for (and being granted) late-night opening and music/entertainment licenses!

 

...so those who originally bought in West One with a guarantee of no real noise have seen that promise eroded more and more over the years.

 

Therefore, whilst I have sympathy with existing venues who have operated late for years then having issues with new nearby residents coming in and complaining (see Night & Day in Manchester for a good example), I also extend that sympathy to people who bought a flat on the basis that it wasn't to be noisy and the units were assigned to one thing, but that use and opening times/noise levels have changed over the years.

 

[sammo sparks]

Town centre in noisy at night shocker!

[YorkieontheTyne]

1 hour ago, SheffieldForum said:

 

Indeed - and I agree to an extent. But it does seem there is more nuance in this case.

 

There are designated 'quiet zones' in the city centre where residential development was/is encouraged, on the basis that residents wouldn't be disrupted by noise.

 

West One was built in this quiet zone and the square at the top was designated to retail. Of course Revolution somehow went into the main unit (with noise and opening restrictions), but they struggled to consistently fill the other units with retail so the developers lobbied for the restrictions on use to be loosened to allow for more bars and nighttime economy uses and eventually won out. Then as these bars wanted to trade more they lobbied to open longer, etc, and that was eventually granted.

 

This had the effect then that all the nearby bars on West Street which had also had limits on opening times, also then applied for their licenses to be extended later to compete, with the precident set nearby, so they got granted. That has ended up in a race to apply for later-and-later opening among all the nearby venues and when one is granted the others use it as a precident to get their own license extended. Which has also had an effect on Glossop Road venues, where traditionally veneues were all to close earlier as it was on the edge of quiet zones, but they can successfully argue there is a precedent nearby and it spreads... There are now RESTAURANTS on Glossop Road applying for (and being granted) late-night opening and music/entertainment licenses!

 

...so those who originally bought in West One with a guarantee of no real noise have seen that promise eroded more and more over the years.

 

Therefore, whilst I have sympathy with existing venues who have operated late for years then having issues with new nearby residents coming in and complaining (see Night & Day in Manchester for a good example), I also extend that sympathy to people who bought a flat on the basis that it wasn't to be noisy and the units were assigned to one thing, but that use and opening times/noise levels have changed over the years.

 

Fair comment most of that, but it’s still and always has been a city centre with all the noise and hustle and bustle that comes with it. It was like it back in the 70’s when I was a whipper snapper and will be like it long after I’m gone.

No good whingeing about something that’s been there long before you were. Sorry.

[SheffieldForum]

Just now, YorkieontheTyne said:

Fair comment most of that, but it’s still and always has been a city centre with all the noise and hustle and bustle that comes with it. It was like it back in the 70’s when I was a whipper snapper and will be like it long after I’m gone.

No good whingeing about something that’s been there long before you were. Sorry.

 

Therein is the nuance though.

 

In the 70s (and even up until fairly recently) the noise largely stopped at 11pm due to licensing laws, extending to 2am outside a limited number of clubs (which weren't in residential areas).

 

Licensing laws, and the expansion of areas allowing later and later licensing in recent years whilst simultaniously encouraging building for residential units in those same areas has created an issue that largely wasn't prevalent back then.

 

The Tribune article is a great read on it to be honest and when you actually think about how a small area of the city centre around the Glossop Road/Fitzwilliam Street/Division Street has changed in the last decade or two you can maybe understand the frustration of residents that existed in that area before those changes and licensing expansions.

 

 

[YorkieontheTyne]

15 minutes ago, SheffieldForum said:

 

Therein is the nuance though.

 

In the 70s (and even up until fairly recently) the noise largely stopped at 11pm due to licensing laws, extending to 2am outside a limited number of clubs (which weren't in residential areas).

 

Licensing laws, and the expansion of areas allowing later and later licensing in recent years whilst simultaniously encouraging building for residential units in those same areas has created an issue that largely wasn't prevalent back then.

 

The Tribune article is a great read on it to be honest and when you actually think about how a small area of the city centre around the Glossop Road/Fitzwilliam Street/Division Street has changed in the last decade or two you can maybe understand the frustration of residents that existed in that area before those changes and licensing expansions.

 

 

I don’t think all the students that used to frequent the area you mentioned suddenly turned the noise levels down at 11pm, or all the traffic suddenly reverted to run silently, it’s a lively bustling city centre, always has been.

Don’t really know how much the areas you mentioned have changed as I haven’t frequented that area on my last couple of visits, and never did really. Visited the Royal hospital when granddad was in there, used the Bombay restaurant occasionally and the West St hotel when a former colleague ran it, and of course Glossop Road baths for the school swimming lessons, but that’s about it.

I get what you mean about changing situations, but it’s still a city centre. If you want peace and quiet live somewhere else, nice genteel Southport for example😜.

[sammo sparks]

28 minutes ago, SheffieldForum said:

 

Therein is the nuance though.

 

In the 70s (and even up until fairly recently) the noise largely stopped at 11pm due to licensing laws, extending to 2am outside a limited number of clubs (which weren't in residential areas).

 

Licensing laws, and the expansion of areas allowing later and later licensing in recent years whilst simultaniously encouraging building for residential units in those same areas has created an issue that largely wasn't prevalent back then.

 

The Tribune article is a great read on it to be honest and when you actually think about how a small area of the city centre around the Glossop Road/Fitzwilliam Street/Division Street has changed in the last decade or two you can maybe understand the frustration of residents that existed in that area before those changes and licensing expansions.

 

 

The very fact that they were building all these flats at West One meant that consequently, more bars, restaurants and take aways would follow.