Girl, 11, and woman, 34, stabbed in central London

[crookesey]

I have some horrendous weapons  in my garage, used in my everlasting war against weeds, grass, privet, and all other sorts of hedging, however when not in use they live in the garage.

[ECCOnoob]

2 hours ago, Beechwood_S6 said:

 

 

Some game content is shocking

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c23l4ml51jmo

 

"We'd get an email or a call from a studio saying we need you on these days for a shoot," she said.

"That was all the information we'd get."

Ms Jefferies told the BBC she was once asked to act out a scene with a male performer involving a sexual assault with no prior warning.

"I turned up and was told what I would be filming would be a graphic rape scene," she said.

"This act could be watched for as long or as little time as the player wanted through a window, and then a player would be able to shoot this character in the head.

 

So is lots of content on TV dramas or in movies or even books.  It still all gets approved and broadcast and published and is consumed by millions of adult viewers.  

 

Thankfully, 99.9% of those viewers are able to detach between fantasy and reality. However, for those rare few disturbed individuals, yes it is possible they may get influenced by some imagery and act upon them. 

 

But we don't wipe out an entire genre of media just because of a tiny tiny amount of clearly disturbed people who may get affected by it. 

 

Gaming always seems to be one of those things that has some default stereotype of being "just for the kids".  It clearly isn't and  never was.

 

Loads of games, just like loads of other media has an 18 plus certificate and designed from the ground up to be an adult game with adult themes for an adult audience.   Even way way back in its early days in the '80s there was sexploitation games, games filled with lewd images and very adult humour on mostly pirated 'back of the magazine' disks...  In the '90s that evolved into the first generation of digital disc games with an  infamous horror one involving a whole plot regarding kidnap and rape.  Later on millions of horny men were getting aroused by the imagery of Lara Crodt in Tomb Raider and that has now developed into full-on virtual reality pornography. 

 

The point is, that adult material is not a new concept and neither is adult themes across a range of media.  Not so long ago we had millions of women wetting their knickers over the racy contents of fifty shades of grey all sat there quite openly in public places and on public transport reading the filthy book.  However I don't remember lots of sensationalised headlines about the sadistic nature of the content or warnings on how every man was instantly turning to sadistic acts to feed the demands of their partners.  It was just a book.  Just entertainment and it went down so well that they turned into a film.  

 

Back to the article, I will admit it is pretty arguable the voice actors who are going to be required to undertake such topics or performances should be fully aware in advance and given opportunity to decline such role. But I do question whether there would be so much fuss kicked up if this was  vocal acting required for a gritty TV drama or some near the knuckle real life play on Radio 4 or some docudrama for Netflix.  

 

It really just seems sometimes that gaming is often the go-to place for finger pointing.  

[Beechwood_S6]

20 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

 

So is lots of content on TV dramas or in movies or even books.  It still all gets approved and broadcast and published and is consumed by millions of adult viewers.  

 

Thankfully, 99.9% of those viewers are able to detach between fantasy and reality. However, for those rare few disturbed individuals, yes it is possible they may get influenced by some imagery and act upon them. 

 

But we don't wipe out an entire genre of media just because of a tiny tiny amount of clearly disturbed people who may get affected by it. 

 

Gaming always seems to be one of those things that has some default stereotype of being "just for the kids".  It clearly isn't and  never was.

 

Loads of games, just like loads of other media has an 18 plus certificate and designed from the ground up to be an adult game with adult themes for an adult audience.   Even way way back in its early days in the '80s there was sexploitation games, games filled with lewd images and very adult humour on mostly pirated 'back of the magazine' disks...  In the '90s that evolved into the first generation of digital disc games with an  infamous horror one involving a whole plot regarding kidnap and rape.  Later on millions of horny men were getting aroused by the imagery of Lara Crodt in Tomb Raider and that has now developed into full-on virtual reality pornography. 

 

The point is, that adult material is not a new concept and neither is adult themes across a range of media.  Not so long ago we had millions of women wetting their knickers over the racy contents of fifty shades of grey all sat there quite openly in public places and on public transport reading the filthy book.  However I don't remember lots of sensationalised headlines about the sadistic nature of the content or warnings on how every man was instantly turning to sadistic acts to feed the demands of their partners.  It was just a book.  Just entertainment and it went down so well that they turned into a film.  

 

Back to the article, I will admit it is pretty arguable the voice actors who are going to be required to undertake such topics or performances should be fully aware in advance and given opportunity to decline such role. But I do question whether there would be so much fuss kicked up if this was  vocal acting required for a gritty TV drama or some near the knuckle real life play on Radio 4 or some docudrama for Netflix.  

 

It really just seems sometimes that gaming is often the go-to place for finger pointing.  

point being in those examples, the viewer is a step away, in gaming they are physically participating making mental choices to pull the trigger, then actually doing violent acts/crimes within the games  as their free will given the access teenagers have to this material its not a major step to see it transferred into real life, be it street gangs or playgrounds.  

[cressida]

These mentally disturbed people may still be intelligent enough to know not to get sucked into dangerous games so should back off or find themselves out of control thus in danger of becoming a statistical disposable oddball in prison with others of his mentality.

[peak4]

37 minutes ago, Beechwood_S6 said:

point being in those examples, the viewer is a step away, in gaming they are physically participating making mental choices to pull the trigger, then actually doing violent acts/crimes within the games  as their free will given the access teenagers have to this material its not a major step to see it transferred into real life, be it street gangs or playgrounds.  

25 minutes ago, cressida said:

These mentally disturbed people may still be intelligent enough to know not to get sucked into dangerous games so should back off or find themselves out of control thus in danger of becoming a statistical disposable oddball in prison with others of his mentality.

It's all getting a bit diverted from the original attack in London; but since this part of the discussion is on gaming (I don't play personally, so have no direct experience of actual content)

I'm not convinced it's that easy for people who become immersed in the computer games to know how deeply involved they really are; how many US gun killings involve loners who spend much of their time immersed in computer games.

I wonder how many similarities there are when folk with certain character traits get involved in riots or other extremist movements etc.
There are crossovers here with the thread about Yvette Cooper's proposed review of extremism, and in particular the Incel ideology.
Many folk here in the UK will be unaware of it (Incel), and the potential implications for violence towards others.
I wonder about the various psychological experiments in the past, some of which were abandoned due to safety fears, and consider how some findings  may be relevant to behaviours we see playing out today. Some even seem to be happening right in front of us in real life.

https://www.thehealthjournals.com/10-psychological-experiments-that-went-way-too-far/

Extremism Finds Fertile Ground in Chat Rooms for Gamers   NTY Via archive.ph
In the past year, about half the people who played online multiplayer games in the world’s major gaming markets encountered extremist statements, a new study found.

There are rules people must agree to before joining Unloved, a private discussion group on Discord, the messaging service popular among players of video games.

One rule: “Do not respect women.”
For those inside, Unloved serves as a forum where about 150 people embrace a misogynistic subculture in which the members call themselves “incels,” a term that describes those who identify as involuntarily celibate. They share some harmless memes but also joke about school shootings 

Incels: Inside a dark world of online hate BBC

Jake Davison, the man suspected of killing five people in Plymouth had been active on social media platforms discussing the "incel" movement - young men describing themselves as "involuntarily celibate".

[Bellatrix]

1 hour ago, ECCOnoob said:

Back to the article, I will admit it is pretty arguable the voice actors who are going to be required to undertake such topics or performances should be fully aware in advance and given opportunity to decline such role. But I do question whether there would be so much fuss kicked up if this was  vocal acting required for a gritty TV drama or some near the knuckle real life play on Radio 4 or some docudrama for Netflix.

The motion capture technology used for animation in films is used for gaming animation too, so the 'vocal acting' is akin to that done by, say, Benedict Cumberbatch when he played Smaug.  Film and TV have embraced the need for intimacy coordinators when filming intimate scenes; it seems that the gaming industry has a lot of catching up to do.

 

The BBC article mentions Baldur's Gate 3, an 18 certificate game that's sold over 10 million copies as of this year.  Two points here: First, the 18 certificate is there for a reason.  Parents who allow their children, by consent or neglect, to play games aimed at adults are responsible for any real or perceived consequence of a child playing those games.

 

Second, the game has sold over 10 million copies to people the vast majority of whom will be perfectly well adjusted.  The disturbed (insert your synonym of choice) will seek out content many and varied - and groups of similar-minded individuals - to share whatever it is in that content that they feel resonates with their beliefs, attitudes and behaviour.  Let's not go down the hysterical 80s satanic panic route again.

[Delbow]

14 minutes ago, Bellatrix said:

The motion capture technology used for animation in films is used for gaming animation too, so the 'vocal acting' is akin to that done by, say, Benedict Cumberbatch when he played Smaug.  Film and TV have embraced the need for intimacy coordinators when filming intimate scenes; it seems that the gaming industry has a lot of catching up to do.

 

The BBC article mentions Baldur's Gate 3, an 18 certificate game that's sold over 10 million copies as of this year.  Two points here: First, the 18 certificate is there for a reason.  Parents who allow their children, by consent or neglect, to play games aimed at adults are responsible for any real or perceived consequence of a child playing those games.

 

Second, the game has sold over 10 million copies to people the vast majority of whom will be perfectly well adjusted.  The disturbed (insert your synonym of choice) will seek out content many and varied - and groups of similar-minded individuals - to share whatever it is in that content that they feel resonates with their beliefs, attitudes and behaviour.  Let's not go down the hysterical 80s satanic panic route again.

 

Good points. I'd add that, as a parent of two kids who enjoy gaming, and as someone who enjoys gaming myself, the PEGI rating system for video games isn't fit for purpose. It seems to be primarily aimed at American Christian conservatives, or someone in America who's easily offended. It also doesn't match up at all with the BBFC rating system for films and TV. The end result is a lot of games with a higher age rating than they deserve, which means people stop paying attention to the ratings. An issue there is that some games are deserving of their 18 ratings (Mafia 3, for example) but it's very difficult to know which games are fine for your 15 year old and which are not. But anyway, most kids seem to have a very good ability to differentiate between fantasy and real life.

[SheffieldForum]

19 minutes ago, Delbow said:

 

Good points. I'd add that, as a parent of two kids who enjoy gaming, and as someone who enjoys gaming myself, the PEGI rating system for video games isn't fit for purpose. It seems to be primarily aimed at American Christian conservatives, or someone in America who's easily offended. It also doesn't match up at all with the BBFC rating system for films and TV. The end result is a lot of games with a higher age rating than they deserve, which means people stop paying attention to the ratings. An issue there is that some games are deserving of their 18 ratings (Mafia 3, for example) but it's very difficult to know which games are fine for your 15 year old and which are not. But anyway, most kids seem to have a very good ability to differentiate between fantasy and real life.

 

Not disagreeing with your wider point (PEGI is a terrible ratings system), isn't PEGI a European thing (Pan European Game information)? The US system is ESRB (Entertainment Software Rating Board).

 

It was much better in the UK when the BBFC classified games on a similar basis to films and TV.

[ECCOnoob]

2 hours ago, Beechwood_S6 said:

point being in those examples, the viewer is a step away, in gaming they are physically participating making mental choices to pull the trigger, then actually doing violent acts/crimes within the games  as their free will given the access teenagers have to this material its not a major step to see it transferred into real life, be it street gangs or playgrounds.  

 

Only linkage if you are suggesting similarly that every child who played with cap guns, is a great risk of committing a firearms offences or anyone that regularly enjoys a ride on the dodgems at the fun fair should be carefully monitored ready to have their licence revoked because they have a high probability of mirroring it when they go around driving on the streets. 

 

Anyone who has the mindset and disturbed mental condition to conduct  a homicide offence. Is just as probable to be 'triggered' into their behaviour by any means of media. They could be as simply triggered by reading words on page, seeing a photographing in a book or even hearing a certain piece of music. 

 

All I'm suggesting is that whenever a tragic incident happens, there seems to be some automatic lurch towards finger pointing gaming and internet and youth culture,  despite the fact that violence, aggression, graphic images, sexual exploitation and the macabre is spread all around our media all the time and has been for decades.

[Bellatrix]

38 minutes ago, Delbow said:

but it's very difficult to know which games are fine for your 15 year old and which are not.

It does have a whiff of pearl clutching at times, but the IMDB Parents Guide sections for individual media items also includes games, with content description posted by game players.  I'm sure sites devoted to gaming do similar.

 

Teenagers' maturity differs independent of age, and of course involved and mindful parents are the best judge of that and of the suitability of game content for their offspring.