Sheffield's First Dutch-Style Roundabout Nears Completion at West Bar

[SheffieldForum]

3 hours ago, *_ash_* said:

 

Why did you skip all of this part? I explained here (Asia) how things work well and you just skipped past it all with a sarcastic comment. 

 

The bike scheme here is used by everybody. It's cheap, they're everywhere. Sheffield tried this, and what happened to all of those cheap bikes? Tell me anyone? Dare anyone write what happened to them?

Now, if you buy your own bike, what are the chances of that lasting more than a minute in the centre of town if you leave it?

 

Even though the subway is cheap here, it's flat, so the bikes are a good option. I tend to use a mixture of both if I'm going somewhere far away, get the subway to close to where I want to be, then get a bike outside the station and cycle to where I want to be. 

 

Compare this with Sheffield... can you go to a hire a bike from almost every street corner? Scan your phone then start cycling?

 

The cost of this junction alone could have paid for a cycle system. Sheffield isn't big enough for even a small subway system I think, so buses are the alternative, 

 

Cycling in Sheffield is just that. You need to own a bike, and use it from A to B. No choice. You can't leave it anywhere. You can't go from one option to another. 

 

Tick this response on your bingo card.

 

 

 

 

Sorry Ash, wasn’t having a go!

 

Was just being a little facetious regarding the constant reasoning of Sheffield being too hilly that is repeated ad-naseum. 😉

[Planner1]

18 hours ago, *_ash_* said:

 

The bike scheme here is used by everybody. It's cheap, they're everywhere. Sheffield tried this, and what happened to all of those cheap bikes? Tell me anyone? Dare anyone write what happened to them?

Now, if you buy your own bike, what are the chances of that lasting more than a minute in the centre of town if you leave it?

 

Even though the subway is cheap here, it's flat, so the bikes are a good option. I tend to use a mixture of both if I'm going somewhere far away, get the subway to close to where I want to be, then get a bike outside the station and cycle to where I want to be. 

 

Compare this with Sheffield... can you go to a hire a bike from almost every street corner? Scan your phone then start cycling?

 

The cost of this junction alone could have paid for a cycle system. Sheffield isn't big enough for even a small subway system I think, so buses are the alternative, 

 

Cycling in Sheffield is just that. You need to own a bike, and use it from A to B. No choice. You can't leave it anywhere. You can't go from one option to another. 

 

The (private sector) bike hire scheme failed because of the levels of theft of the bikes. The scheme owners underestimated the rate of loss / damage and withdrew the scheme. This happened in other uk cities too.

 

Leeds have recently introduced an electric bike hire scheme and they have lost a lot of bikes to theft and vandalism.

 

Clearly the culture is different here to other places in the world. Shared mobility solutions that seem to do ok in other countries don’t do as well here. Car clubs is one example.

 

People who commute to work on a bike often use older ones that don’t attract theft. Some employers also provide secure storage. There are ways around problems. I’ve got several valuable bikes and have never had one stolen.

[alchemist]

Now to stop everyone complaining that it wont be used by cyclists can I point out that I DID see a cyclist going down West Bar Green the other week!!!

 

Although, he WAS on the pavement, so does that count????

[RollingJ]

22 minutes ago, alchemist said:

Now to stop everyone complaining that it wont be used by cyclists can I point out that I DID see a cyclist going down West Bar Green the other week!!!

 

Although, he WAS on the pavement, so does that count????

No!

[hackey lad]

1 hour ago, alchemist said:

Now to stop everyone complaining that it wont be used by cyclists can I point out that I DID see a cyclist going down West Bar Green the other week!!!

 

Although, he WAS on the pavement, so does that count????

Don’t tell the council. It will give them other silly ideas 

[*_ash_*]

2 hours ago, Planner1 said:

1. The (private sector) bike hire scheme failed because of the levels of theft of the bikes. The scheme owners underestimated the rate of loss / damage and withdrew the scheme. This happened in other uk cities too.

 

2. Leeds have recently introduced an electric bike hire scheme and they have lost a lot of bikes to theft and vandalism.

 

3. Clearly the culture is different here to other places in the world. Shared mobility solutions that seem to do ok in other countries don’t do as well here. Car clubs is one example.

 

4. People who commute to work on a bike often use older ones that don’t attract theft. Some employers also provide secure storage. There are ways around problems. I’ve got several valuable bikes and have never had one stolen.

Planner1, it's nice to hear a coherent and honest answer to what I was getting at. 

 

Quoting is difficult so I'll number them.

 

1. People stole these bikes... we all know this (and who they were)... but they were basic bikes. Crap really. They simply did the job of cycling from one place to another - without hills. They were terribly hard to ride up hill (same as the non-electric ones here)

This was partly my point about buying bikes... if people steal these basic crap bikes, then what chance of people buying a decent bike have got?

 

2. Same. What a sad society really. It pains me to think of Britain now. I just don't miss it at all. 

 

3. The culture of Britain has become one like USA. Theft. People see something they want, or groups see things that they know people want, but don't want to pay for it, and steal it. 

Maybe I am lucky that I chose a culture that doesn't think like this. Even when I hire a bike with a group of people here, I lock my bike while the others don't... and they see me as strange... they say, why lock it? Who is going to take it? But my mindset is that of a westerner, so I still have to lock it. 

 

4. You're lucky not to have one stolen. Everyone I know who had a good bike had at least one nicked.

As for secure spaces... I won't name the company but they are a big solicitor firm around Kelham area, and they have secure parking for bikes. My friend's bike got nicked... on camera... and they just said give this footage to the police (you could see his face clearly), and they just gave them a claim number for the insurance. It boils my blood.

 

 

[Gormenghast]

3 hours ago, Planner1 said:

 

People who commute to work on a bike often use older ones that don’t attract theft. Some employers also provide secure storage. There are ways around problems. I’ve got several valuable bikes and have never had one stolen.

 

What I find really hard to believe is that the instigators of these schemes could not see that putting shiny new bikes on the streets wouldn't attract thieves. What sort of Dreamworld do they live in?

 

I've commented elsewhere about the pre-planning stages of expensive projects that don't seem to include any assessment of potential problems or actual, not predicted or hoped for, outcomes.

 

You might say that they always do these sort  of assessments, but if that's true,  quite frankly they must be  absolutely useless at their jobs. They're full of more ideas how to cure problems when they occur, but seem to be totally surprised that they do occur. 

 

Maybe they should consider something that Donald Rumsfeld talked about some time ago and spend  more time on identifying the unknown unknowns. 

 

You say above that there are ways around problems. Why don't they spend more time on identifying and preventing them occuring than throwing more public money at them later.

 

Just off now to get my Lamborghini. I parked it down the road and left the keys in, but it'll still be there I'm sure...

[Planner1]

5 hours ago, Gormenghast said:

 

What I find really hard to believe is that the instigators of these schemes could not see that putting shiny new bikes on the streets wouldn't attract thieves. What sort of Dreamworld do they live in?

 

I've commented elsewhere about the pre-planning stages of expensive projects that don't seem to include any assessment of potential problems or actual, not predicted or hoped for, outcomes.

 

You might say that they always do these sort  of assessments, but if that's true,  quite frankly they must be  absolutely useless at their jobs. They're full of more ideas how to cure problems when they occur, but seem to be totally surprised that they do occur. 

 

Maybe they should consider something that Donald Rumsfeld talked about some time ago and spend  more time on identifying the unknown unknowns. 

 

You say above that there are ways around problems. Why don't they spend more time on identifying and preventing them occuring than throwing more public money at them later.

 

Just off now to get my Lamborghini. I parked it down the road and left the keys in, but it'll still be there I'm sure...

The bike hire scheme in Sheffield was a Chinese company, Ofo. They tried the same type of thing in many cities and didn’t make money, so they folded. No public money was involved.

 

The Leeds e-bike hire scheme did take into account the likely losses due to theft and vandalism when building their business case. They based their projections on the levels of attrition that were experienced in existing UK e-bike hire schemes, mainly in London and Brighton if I recall correctly ( Manchester’s hadn’t been running long). Perhaps it’s a Northern issue. Manchester seem to have had similar problems with their scheme, see this report.

 

The amount that these schemes cost is fairly modest on the grand scale of things, £2.86 million of government grant ( via the MCA) for the Leeds one. That sort of money doesn’t buy you much in terms of infrastructure nowadays.
 

 

[hackey lad]

3 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

The bike hire scheme in Sheffield was a Chinese company, Ofo. They tried the same type of thing in many cities and didn’t make money, so they folded. No public money was involved.

 

The Leeds e-bike hire scheme did take into account the likely losses due to theft and vandalism when building their business case. They based their projections on the levels of attrition that were experienced in existing UK e-bike hire schemes, mainly in London and Brighton if I recall correctly ( Manchester’s hadn’t been running long). Perhaps it’s a Northern issue. Manchester seem to have had similar problems with their scheme, see this report.

 

The amount that these schemes cost is fairly modest on the grand scale of things, £2.86 million of government grant ( via the MCA) for the Leeds one. That sort of money doesn’t buy you much in terms of infrastructure nowadays.
 

 

That’s ok then .

[pfifes]

6 hours ago, Planner1 said:

The bike hire scheme in Sheffield was a Chinese company, Ofo. They tried the same type of thing in many cities and didn’t make money, so they folded. No public money was involved.

 

The Leeds e-bike hire scheme did take into account the likely losses due to theft and vandalism when building their business case. They based their projections on the levels of attrition that were experienced in existing UK e-bike hire schemes, mainly in London and Brighton if I recall correctly ( Manchester’s hadn’t been running long). Perhaps it’s a Northern issue. Manchester seem to have had similar problems with their scheme, see this report.

 

The amount that these schemes cost is fairly modest on the grand scale of things, £2.86 million of government grant ( via the MCA) for the Leeds one. That sort of money doesn’t buy you much in terms of infrastructure nowadays.
 

 

It’s interesting that you mention the possibility of theft and vandalism being a ‘a northern thing’.  I wondered that myself sometimes before.  I don’t know if the bike schemes further south are in generally better off areas with less deprivation though.