Sheffield's First Dutch-Style Roundabout Nears Completion at West Bar

[The_DADDY]

37 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

Pedestrian crossings no good for cyclists? 

Aren't they supposed to dismount and walk with their bike if using a pedestrian crossing? 

[hackey lad]

56 minutes ago, The_DADDY said:

Aren't they supposed to dismount and walk with their bike if using a pedestrian crossing? 

Yep but is it hard  ? 

[hackey lad]

1 hour ago, Prettytom said:

Well, cyclists aren’t pedestrians, by definition. So no, pedestrian crossings aren’t any good for cyclists.

 

If that’s what you meant, because it’s really not all that clear from your text.

We know that ,  clever clogs . 

[AndrewC]

12 hours ago, Mr. Johnson said:

No.

Taking out your emotive use of exaggeatory hyperbole, it would appear in the cold hard light of day that this is a project forced upon the council tax paying public rather than one that benefits the majority of them.

Given that local councils up and down the country are claiming bankruptcy or are near their financial limits, the residents of such population centres are well within the realm of reason to question the spending of public money on this project.

 

They do have that right, but can you show me where road building schemes, the ever increasing number of cars on the road, the ever increasing size of those cars on the roads etc. have all been questioned and scrutinised to the nth degree, as these cycling infrastructure projects are? Because if they haven't then we have an issue of hypocrisy, don't we?

 

Has Derek Dooley Way successfully met all of it's ROI targets, congestion-reducing targets, etc that were all laid out before it's construction? Or more importantly, has it been subject to the same level of scrutiny that vastly cheaper cycling infrastructure schemes have been?

 

Oh, and redirecting the subject from misconceptions about road users on to some spurious crap about democracy and stuff doesn't really address what I was talking about? Many other countries with good cycling infrastructure find huge levels of success and ridership amongst the older generations and people with mobility issues.

[AndrewC]

On 05/10/2024 at 17:38, alchemist said:

And here we go.... 😄

 

Anything constructive to add?

[Planner1]

11 hours ago, The_DADDY said:

Aren't they supposed to dismount and walk with their bike if using a pedestrian crossing? 

That’s why schemes that include cycle routes usually have combined waking / cycling crossings. You won’t get more people cycling unless it is safer and more convenient for them to do so. Putting in convenient crossings that give them priority is part of that.

[peak4]

11 hours ago, The_DADDY said:

Aren't they supposed to dismount and walk with their bike if using a pedestrian crossing? 

10 hours ago, hackey lad said:

Yep but is it hard  ? 

In reality, I don't think it's that simple.
Expecting cyclists to have to use Zebra crossings as the only safe means to cross a road isn't going to help encourage cycling as part of a joined up transport approach.
There's also a legal aspect; from what I can make out, it's not actually illegal to cycle across a Zebra, though it is contrary to the highway code.
Some cyclists are unlikely to dismount and push; the inclusion of a Zebra, and expecting cyclists to do so is doomed to failure.
It's briefly discussed in this TFL document https://content.tfl.gov.uk/cyclists-use-of-zebra-crossings.pdf

3. Legalities of the Zebra crossing
3.1 The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossing Regulations and general Directions (1997) give direction on the regulatory frameworks surrounding crossings.
• Zebra crossings give pedestrians priority over vehicles on the carriageway
• Cyclists are vehicles and are permitted to ride on the part of a Zebra crossing that is carriageway, provided they give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross.
• It is not illegal to cycle across a Zebra crossing if there is shared-use to either side, but it is contrary to Rule 64 of the Highway Code which states that cyclists should dismount and walk across Zebra crossings.
Breach of the highway code could be used as evidence of an offence, eg cycling dangerously, or of evidence of negligence in the event of a collision.

[To date, there is insufficient evidence to suggest a change in Rule 64 of the Highway Code is needed and it is therefore not TfL’s intention to pursue this aspect]
• Nearly 90% of cyclists at six sites surveyed cycled across Zebra crossings
• The Secretary of State has powers to make regulations with respect to precedence of vehicles and pedestrians respectively, and generally with respect to the movement of traffic (including pedestrians) at and in the vicinity of crossings. Presently Zebra crossing regulations only allow for pedestrians to have precedence over vehicles. 

 

The actual regs are here, but I really can't be bothered to go through and analyse them for a throwaway question (Brandolini's law and all that)

The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997
UK Statutory Instruments1997 No. 2400Whole Instrument

[woodmally1979]

Firstly I dont drive nor do I cycle but I am sick of all the bias towards cyclists. They do nothing for motorists. They charge them for the ULEZ scheme. They have extortionate parking and shut off most of the roads in the city centre. 

 

I have not seen one cyclist use the cycle lane outside the peace gardens.  Everything is geared towards cycling this is the latest example. 

 

And yes many motorists are agressive towards cyclists but maybe some of it is down to the fact that motorists get fined and stopped by police for not obeying the highway code. I have never seen that happen to a cyclist. 

[The_DADDY]

42 minutes ago, woodmally1979 said:

Firstly I dont drive nor do I cycle but I am sick of all the bias towards cyclists. They do nothing for motorists. They charge them for the ULEZ scheme. They have extortionate parking and shut off most of the roads in the city centre. 

 

I have not seen one cyclist use the cycle lane outside the peace gardens.  Everything is geared towards cycling this is the latest example. 

 

And yes many motorists are agressive towards cyclists but maybe some of it is down to the fact that motorists get fined and stopped by police for not obeying the highway code. I have never seen that happen to a cyclist. 

My bold

Last Thursday when going home I was at the traffic lights near Queens Road. They were red and a cyclist just went straight through. A copper  in a police car was in the lane next to me, no way did he not see it but did nothing. 

For balance at the end of Parkway two cars went through the red lights but there were no police about. I'm reasonably sure that if there had been at least one if them would have been stopped. 

 

[Planner1]

55 minutes ago, woodmally1979 said:

Firstly I dont drive nor do I cycle but I am sick of all the bias towards cyclists. They do nothing for motorists. They charge them for the ULEZ scheme. They have extortionate parking and shut off most of the roads in the city centre. 

 

I have not seen one cyclist use the cycle lane outside the peace gardens.  Everything is geared towards cycling this is the latest example. 

 

And yes many motorists are agressive towards cyclists but maybe some of it is down to the fact that motorists get fined and stopped by police for not obeying the highway code. I have never seen that happen to a cyclist. 

I believe that you are failing to recognise that for the past century or thereabouts, everything spent on the roads has been geared towards the convenience of motorists and much of the spending on transport has been about speeding up their journeys, often at the expense of people who walk and cycle. So, the current emphasis on cycling and walking is in a small way, trying to start to redress that balance.

 

If you think parking prices are extortionate here, you perhaps need to have a look at what they are in similar size cities around the UK. If you did, you’d find they are par for the course. Don’t forget that the majority of parking in Sheffield is provided by the private sector, who are going to want to maximise their profits. 
 

You also conveniently forget that motorists are diving a motor vehicle, which weighs at least a tonne or two and travels s lot faster than cyclists. Therefore the consequences of them “ doing it wrong” are likely to be much more severe than the occasional indiscretion by a cyclist.