Israel / Gaza / Lebanon / Iran War Thread

[Al Bundy]

Just now, banjodeano said:

Because its just a tool to shut down debate..any criticism and your an antisemite 

The irony!!!!

 

Brilliant.

[banjodeano]

1 minute ago, Al Bundy said:

State of that post.

 

Genocide appeasers...good grief, grow up will you.

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent post..Good grief I can't debate with such wisdom 

[Al Bundy]

Just now, banjodeano said:

Excellent post..Good grief I can't debate with such wisdom 

Thanks.

 

👍

[Tony]

1 hour ago, El Cid said:

 

I generally don't like the anti-BBC memes, but the BBC and other media outlets don't seem neutral. They parrot what the Israeli government tells them with little scrutiny.

Many countries at 'war', such as Israel give out propaganda, but Israel was not at war, until they escalated matters by bombing their neighbouring countries.

 

Before arriving at that conclusion it's wise to ask about the provenance and accuracy of the central claim against Israel - that they have killed tens of thousands of innocent people. So for example;

Who makes that claim?

Is the claim accurate?

Why do they make that claim?

Who is served by that claim?

Who benefits  from that claim? 

What are the objectives of the claimants?

 

There are two key parts to the claim which each have their own subset of evidence to verify.

A. 41k killed, and

B. innocent people.

 

A typical first port of call might be to seek out independent media reports on the ground. You won't be able to do that though because:

1. Israel takes in independent journalists under escort.

2. Hamas don't allow independent journalists in at all.

 

So we go back to the veracity questions and only a real mug (accidental or deliberate) would believe the central claim without truly independent verification. If we can't verify claims we must not full our knowledge gaps with emotions. Lives depend on it. 

[Baz1]

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/wZWxHB4EBMZp6bCE/

 

Great point 👏 

[Bamanamanana]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

A typical first port of call might be to seek out independent media reports on the ground. You won't be able to do that though because:

1. Israel takes in independent journalists under escort.

2. Hamas don't allow independent journalists in at all.

 

So we go back to the veracity questions and only a real mug (accidental or deliberate) would believe the central claim without truly independent verification. If we can't verify claims we must not full our knowledge gaps with emotions. Lives depend on it. 

 

Or allow emotion to lead them into making up claims:

 

Why Is Israel Afraid to Allow Foreign Journalists in Gaza? What's It Hiding?:

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2024-09-11/ty-article-opinion/israel-must-allow-foreign-journalists-to-report-from-gaza/00000191-dd73-dd31-a9bd-ff779bf20000

 

High Court says Israel can keep barring foreign reporters from Gaza:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/high-court-says-israel-can-keep-barring-foreign-reporters-from-gaza/

 

Journalists call for foreign media access to Gaza in open letter:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68423995

 

Israel: journalists blocked from entering Gaza:

https://www.nuj.org.uk/resource/israel-journalists-blocked-from-entering-gaza.html

 

 

 

[Bamanamanana]

Apologies, I have taken your comment out of context, you are correct that Israel insists on only providing escorted/curated tours.

 

I haven't seen any reports of Hamas explicitly refusing independent journalists (who aren't Israeli), CNN has had access, via Egypt I believe.

[Tony]

10 minutes ago, Bamanamanana said:

 

Or allow emotion to lead them into making up claims:

 

Why Is Israel Afraid to Allow Foreign Journalists in Gaza? What's It Hiding?:

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2024-09-11/ty-article-opinion/israel-must-allow-foreign-journalists-to-report-from-gaza/00000191-dd73-dd31-a9bd-ff779bf20000

 

High Court says Israel can keep barring foreign reporters from Gaza:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/high-court-says-israel-can-keep-barring-foreign-reporters-from-gaza/

 

Journalists call for foreign media access to Gaza in open letter:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68423995

 

Israel: journalists blocked from entering Gaza:

https://www.nuj.org.uk/resource/israel-journalists-blocked-from-entering-gaza.html

 

 

 

 

You agree with me then. That's progress. 👍 Now do the same for Palestinian claims.

[Tony]

@Bamanamanana just saw your second post. Noted.  

 

This interview appeared in my feed. By all means don't automatically just take it at face value but this journalist has been embedded with day to day IDF infantry and has a story to share. Haaretz are an Israeli newspaper but they are by no means a government mouthpiece - see the front page https://www.haaretz.com/) 

 

I think it's valuable reporting so that we're discussing actual reports and information and not just overwrought emotions and clickbait reactions. 

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Tony